B&A Precision

wheelieking71 · Aug 3, 2021

Perry Harrington said:
I don't see how it would be possible to make spec AR lowers for $40 each today. I'd guess the production cost of a spec forged AR is around $70 today in very large quantities.

dstryr said:
There are shops with the right equipment that can make a AR lower from a forging in under 15 min.
$40 is super low but I've seen a lot of people paying around $50 each

Doesn't matter. I couldn't care less. I'm not playing that game.

I had another guy come in. Wanted AR charging handles. I was like (in my head) okay whatever, its work.
"Yea I've made them before. Do you have a model? How many do you want?"
He was like no model. Don't care what they look like. As long as they function. I'll take a bunch (don't remember exact quantity).
Says he has a local guy that does them for $10ea. But, he takes too long to deliver. I know the guy. Big player, awesome shop!
So I'm like "okay, I'll make them". Next time I talk to the guy, the quantity is like 1/4 what it was. Of course price needs to stay planted.
"NOPE! Go back to Dale. I'm not doing it!" Glad I had not ordered material yet cause I would have probably shoved it up his ass.
Of course now I'm a dick and hard to work with. I'm just over it.

Ox · Aug 3, 2021

$10 from what?
Must be taking from bar stock?

We run from extrusion, but it's not like you can bank on getting any of that in-house before this all come tumbling down.
(32 weeks last I knew)

Heck, I still have thousands of them on my shelf yet...

Would like to purge the stock before this run finishes up.

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

wheelieking71 · Aug 3, 2021

Ox said:
$10 from what?
Must be taking from bar stock?

We run from extrusion, but it's not like you can bank on getting any of that in-house before this all come tumbling down.
(32 weeks last I knew)

Heck, I still have thousands of them on my shelf yet...

Would like to purge the stock before this run finishes up.

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Yes, bar stock. I have no source for extrusion. I told him extrusion exists.
He did not want to do the leg-work of finding it. And, I wasn't about to lay the coin out for it anyway.

I have 14,000units worth of custom extrusion for the big job I was running sitting here. Luckily for me it is customer supplied!
I'm not interested in putting myself in that situation. It's bad enough I have to trip over this stuff for who knows how long?!
Let alone pay for it!
I do have about 4,000 worth of plain extruded bar for the other model that I supplied. At least its a couple common sizes I could eventually use for something.
Might have to cut it in half to make useful? The custom extrusion? Nope, its scrap! $30+k worth of 6061, worth about $3k at the recycler.

david n · Aug 4, 2021

wheelieking71 said:
Doesn't matter. I couldn't care less. I'm not playing that game.

I had another guy come in. Wanted AR charging handles. I was like (in my head) okay whatever, its work.
"Yea I've made them before. Do you have a model? How many do you want?"
He was like no model. Don't care what they look like. As long as they function. I'll take a bunch (don't remember exact quantity).
Says he has a local guy that does them for $10ea. But, he takes too long to deliver. I know the guy. Big player, awesome shop!
So I'm like "okay, I'll make them". Next time I talk to the guy, the quantity is like 1/4 what it was. Of course price needs to stay planted.
"NOPE! Go back to Dale. I'm not doing it!" Glad I had not ordered material yet cause I would have probably shoved it up his ass.
Of course now I'm a dick and hard to work with. I'm just over it.

That the guy I sent over? :leaving:

Perry Harrington · Aug 4, 2021

Eating $30k in materials and didn't sell the product to someone else. That's gotta mean either the market fell out or it got classified as NFA. I can't fathom very many other scenarios where one would willingly eat $30k.

Ox · Aug 4, 2021

Come on fella's.
Obviously he would rather not reveal the part(s).

Go speculate in some other thread somewhere.

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Garwood · Aug 4, 2021

barbter said:
Hahahaha! I had to larf!
I thought earlier, someone will soon write Puuuuullllllleeeeeaaaasssseeee Bill, tell us what you were making

Well, we know it's not 250R cases lol.

chip_maker · Aug 5, 2021

Garwood said:
Well, we know it's not 250R cases lol.

Are you the one making them? I know they're made in OR.

I see there's soon to be a clutch cover to go with them.

standardparts · Aug 5, 2021

dstryr said:
There are shops with the right equipment that can make a AR lower from a forging in under 15 min.
$40 is super low but I've seen a lot of people paying around $50 each

And...When anodize and other issues rear thier ugly head...delete the anodize, delete some holes, a pocket milling op, get a 80% letter and rock on.

Move 'em to smaller market at $32. each in 100 lots and small sellers can pick up $25/$35 per unit.

But you gotta make hay because the rules may change.

Garwood · Aug 5, 2021

chip_maker said:
Are you the one making them? I know they're made in OR.

I see there's soon to be a clutch cover to go with them.

No, I have nothing to do with them. There was a big thread about them in the general section.

chip_maker · Aug 5, 2021

Garwood said:
There was a big thread about them in the general section.

Oyyyyyyyy!

Rick Finsta · Aug 6, 2021

standardparts said:
And...When anodize and other issues rear thier ugly head...delete the anodize, delete some holes, a pocket milling op, get a 80% letter and rock on.

Move 'em to smaller market at $32. each in 100 lots and small sellers can pick up $25/$35 per unit.

But you gotta make hay because the rules may change.

dstryr said:
There are shops with the right equipment that can make a AR lower from a forging in under 15 min.
$40 is super low but I've seen a lot of people paying around $50 each

I don't think you're paying $40-50 for a stripped lower that is built to the technical data package (spec) and properly inspected. The vast majority of the market doesn't care since most AR owners maybe run a few rounds through a year at the range if they even shoot them. Anyone doing serious training knows that excepting a few brands of high end guns that are not *really* built to the TDP, anything hobby grade is gonna start choking after about 300 rounds in a day. I remember talking to Pat Rogers about BCM having to reject over 40% of their sourced parts due to failing QC, which is why they started bringing more and more in-house over the last ten years. Then again, I've seen a DPMS with 35k rounds on it so there are trash-tier unicorns out there.

The old shop I was running went heavy into guns and are doing shitloads of lowers, uppers, and bolts and bolt carriers. They don't have a single air gauge. You can't build those parts to spec without proper gauging. It is what it is, all hobby grade bullshit. Add to that the ATF playing fuck fuck games with the definition of a receiver (trying to make most major parts serialized) and you can count me out of that industry unless I decide to get a Type 07 / Class 02 and pay ITAR just to make myself a belt fed (for the record it would be cheaper than buying at market price even if I paid the fees for another 40 years!).

I actually dropped by the thread to say I'm a day late and a dollar short - I was gonna buy that R450 LOL.

wheelieking71 · Aug 6, 2021

Rick Finsta said:
I don't think you're paying $40-50 for a stripped lower that is built to the technical data package (spec) and properly inspected. The vast majority of the market doesn't care since most AR owners maybe run a few rounds through a year at the range if they even shoot them. Anyone doing serious training knows that excepting a few brands of high end guns that are not *really* built to the TDP, anything hobby grade is gonna start choking after about 300 rounds in a day. I remember talking to Pat Rogers about BCM having to reject over 40% of their sourced parts due to failing QC, which is why they started bringing more and more in-house over the last ten years. Then again, I've seen a DPMS with 35k rounds on it so there are trash-tier unicorns out there.

The old shop I was running went heavy into guns and are doing shitloads of lowers, uppers, and bolts and bolt carriers. They don't have a single air gauge. You can't build those parts to spec without proper gauging. It is what it is, all hobby grade bullshit. Add to that the ATF playing fuck fuck games with the definition of a receiver (trying to make most major parts serialized) and you can count me out of that industry unless I decide to get a Type 07 / Class 02 and pay ITAR just to make myself a belt fed (for the record it would be cheaper than buying at market price even if I paid the fees for another 40 years!).

I actually dropped by the thread to say I'm a day late and a dollar short - I was gonna buy that R450 LOL.

And that nail is well sunk! No shiners there!

CBlair · Aug 8, 2021

I must have missed that, glad to hear it got sold and I know that will help you out.

Charles

standardparts · Aug 8, 2021

Rick Finsta said:
I don't think you're paying $40-50 for a stripped lower that is built to the technical data package (spec) and properly inspected. The vast majority of the market doesn't care since most AR owners maybe run a few rounds through a year at the range if they even shoot them. Anyone doing serious training knows that excepting a few brands of high end guns that are not *really* built to the TDP, anything hobby grade is gonna start choking after about 300 rounds in a day. I remember talking to Pat Rogers about BCM having to reject over 40% of their sourced parts due to failing QC, which is why they started bringing more and more in-house over the last ten years. Then again, I've seen a DPMS with 35k rounds on it so there are trash-tier unicorns out there.

The old shop I was running went heavy into guns and are doing shitloads of lowers, uppers, and bolts and bolt carriers. They don't have a single air gauge. You can't build those parts to spec without proper gauging. It is what it is, all hobby grade bullshit. Add to that the ATF playing fuck fuck games with the definition of a receiver (trying to make most major parts serialized) and you can count me out of that industry unless I decide to get a Type 07 / Class 02 and pay ITAR just to make myself a belt fed (for the record it would be cheaper than buying at market price even if I paid the fees for another 40 years!).

I actually dropped by the thread to say I'm a day late and a dollar short - I was gonna buy that R450 LOL.

Good post and very accurate observations regarding the state of the AR market. Much of what you mention carries through into other types of parts and accessories.

triumph406 · Aug 19, 2021

Ox said:
Come on fella's.
Obviously he would rather not reveal the part(s).

Go speculate in some other thread somewhere.

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

There's no harm in asking. He's a big boy (all 310#) if he doesn't want to tell us what he makes, then he doesn't have too. Simples. I don't think you need to protect Bill's interests, I think he's more than capable of doing that himself.

-------------------------------

I never tell anybody what I make and who my customers are, I don't let any more than a select few past the front door, so I can avoid somebody guessing at what I do and who it's for. I don't get offended when people ask though, no harm in asking.

AJ H · Aug 19, 2021

I'm not even allowed to know what I make or what it's for.

rb07565 · Nov 2, 2021

Ive been a member on this forum for a while. I still remember when you first started this thread. Anyway, its probably one of if not the most popular threads in this forums history. Im just wondering Wheelie, have you ever considered writing or publishing a book about your experiences? I bet it would sell well as an "entepeneur story". I mean look at the number of views and replies!!! I follow your thread because I started my shop not long after yours and I have been through some of the same trials and tribulations. I only wish i could of documented my journey in detail the way you have. I bet you wouldnt even have to write anything. A good editor or writer could probably put together something for you based strictly on the information in this threads history.

T-Man 1066 · Dec 27, 2021

Hey Wheelie, how about an update. What's going on in your world, and what does 2022 look like? Hate to see this thread completely die out...

Antarctica · Dec 28, 2021

T-Man 1066 said:
Hey Wheelie, how about an update. What's going on in your world, and what does 2022 look like? Hate to see this thread completely die out...

Yeah - PM wouldn't be the same without this thread...

B&A Precision

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

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