The lights out checklist

Orange Vise said:

Actually yes, this specific issue is a Haas problem. However, chip issues in general aren't by any stretch confined to Haas machines. There are plenty of higher end machines with chip removal problems, some of which are far more serious than the Haas chip basket issue.

For starters, the job has to be paired with the right machine. In your case, your machine could work for running smaller parts with less material removal, but probably not the parts you're currently running in a lights out setting. You'd probably want a different machine, maybe a horizontal that does a lot better with high volumes of chips.

Second, lights out can mean a lot of different things. It could mean 100% unattended production, or it can simply mean that the machines run without the supervision of highly skilled labor, but lower skilled maintenance personnel can check up on the machines every few hours to manually clear chips, swap out chip bins, top off coolant, etc.

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That makes sense, never thought about it like that, always thought it was unattended.

I think something like a small pallet changer would allow me to run an extra 3hours, if I do a probe tool break detection and figure out the chip tray issue. I'm not there yet, but I'll start thinking about it.

thunderskunk said:

The team I gathered this list from was about 6M parts a year; 3 shifts, 21 machines, 73 SKUs. All bar fed or blank fed Swiss turns.

New team has 600 SKUs, but they have blanks that reach volumes which fit lights out. And yes, baby steps is what we need current state, but on the reverse I’m trying to tell the story to the boss that there is a nuclear option: buy one new machine with new capabilities and automation that replaces 8 machining centers and call it a day. If we go that route, this is a list of stuff to consider that you may not be thinking about with our antiques.

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So if I understand correctly, the new team that you're preparing this lights-out proposal for has 600 SKUs (and so I understand, by SKU we mean individual part number requiring its own program and its own setup)? So across all machines you need about 2.4 setups/day, 5 days a week on average? What kind of qty of each SKU are they doing, and what kind of cycle time are you expecting on average per part? How complex is the workholding for second ops (or can parts be tabbed off)?

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on it, I'm really just asking out of my own curiosity. We have about 150 SKUs to handle across 3 machines and that's hard. 600 on one machine sounds like 1-2 years' worth of programming and workholding setup.

Springy said:

So if I understand correctly, the new team that you're preparing this lights-out proposal for has 600 SKUs (and so I understand, by SKU we mean individual part number requiring its own program and its own setup)? So across all machines you need about 2.4 setups/day, 5 days a week on average? What kind of qty of each SKU are they doing, and what kind of cycle time are you expecting on average per part? How complex is the workholding for second ops (or can parts be tabbed off)?

Sounds to me like you have a pretty good handle on it, I'm really just asking out of my own curiosity. We have about 150 SKUs to handle across 3 machines and that's hard. 600 on one machine sounds like 1-2 years' worth of programming and workholding setup.

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It is more and less complicated than you'd think. Fortunately, those 600 SKUs (individual salable part numbers) are fit into a dozen or so families, and from there the variations are like how there's a thousand ways to assemble a burger with limited ingredients. A lot of them are blanks that apply to multiple finished parts.

Most of the setups fit into step jaws, the rest are good candidates for something like Mite Bite's versa grips. About one setup per mill per day, four setups per lathe per day. If new machines didn't come with so much memory and CAM programs so efficient, you could definitely make every program using a single macro for a family. Not planning on it, but we could.

The complicated bit is what a new machine should look like. Is it a bar-fed lathe with milling capabilities or a robot fed mill with turning capabilities? We could even just do the turned features with live 5-axis to be honest as the turned features are +/-.010" if not more. The rest of the complexity is around post-machining operations such as heat treat and welding, but that's another story.

We could probably do tabs; it's not something I've tried myself before other than EDM. Maybe tool steel isn't a good material for it? It's worth trying. These are incredibly simple parts.

thunderskunk said:

The team I gathered this list from was about 6M parts a year; 3 shifts, 21 machines, 73 SKUs. All bar fed or blank fed Swiss turns.

New team has 600 SKUs,

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I missed this earlier post.

73 SKUs on 21 machines is a totally different animal.

600 SKUs on 8 machines (4 mills / 4 lathes) is insane. Constant changeovers. Sounds like the current team is already doing a damn fine job. I'd leave well enough alone.

How do you even identify 600 different parts?

Orange Vise said:

I missed this earlier post.

73 SKUs on 21 machines is a totally different animal.

600 SKUs on 8 machines (4 mills / 4 lathes) is insane. Constant changeovers. Sounds like the current team is already doing a damn fine job. I'd leave well enough alone.

How do you even identify 600 different parts?

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It’s a miracle, to be Frank. They have no CAD models, only 2D for maybe 1/3 of it. The 600 number (which oddly enough came out to exactly 600) comes from the catalogue; it’s 680 or so after kitting. Part numbers are descriptive, which is… troublesome, especially when the PN says 1” when the actual product is 7/8”. But hey, whatever makes a happy customer.

Their ERP just barely qualifies as an ERP, but honestly works well for them. Work order has everything the associate needs to be successful.

They do a lot of custom stuff, which is not included in the 600. Changeovers aren’t insane I think; There’s a lot of low volume stuff we only make when we run out, and sometimes make to order. A bunch of it is just program changes.

We’re in a hiring dead zone. It’s automate or die if we don’t reduce manpower requirements before half the staff retires. I’m drafting a fixture for clamping 20 parts to the table, and having the ability to mount a quick change double station vise capable of accepting carve-smart jaws for easy setups in case we need to use old programs. Wouldn’t happen to know any products like that, would you? Haha. Thought about just getting four vises and calling it a day.

1000+ skus on 1 machine, 50k parts annually.

I think Wrustles thread on his Haas robot cell might be worth looking at...I think page 5 might be where posts relevant to you might start (I am NOT suggesting you get a Haas robot package).
Sounds like your parts are the right size to load a pallet full of blanks into a Speedio with a spindle gripper. Load them into to a 5ax trunnion if you like. Frank just mentioned in another thread that S300s are on clearance if you want an army of little mills.
Or maybe a spindle gripper and a pneumatic cylinder loading tray that pops in/out of the envelope will work in one of their little 5x mill/turn machines?