RFQ -25000 3/8 brass plugs

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

To all,
Thanks for the quotes that I have gotten so far. These have always been run on a screw machine. Based on the quotes I have received from members on this forum it seems that CNC machines are clearly not the best way to run it. I am not trying to be rude or beat people down on price but we have been paying 29 cents per piece and that is the price point we are targeting. We are just looking at adding a new source as we use between 100-125K a year.

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

DanASM said:
This thread caught my eye as this is a good part for my machines....If qty was lower, and I wasnt swamped.

A Davenport Shop would be the way to go. Ox knows the deal.

I have a few rotary broaches, but have never used them. I cut brass all the time but the shops that cut all brass all the time will have an advantage over the rest of us.

I have a Davey Shop in CT if needed. There are a few hundred Davenports in the Hartford area. My toolmaker deals with them and I was a little surprised at how many were still going strong. They are training new recruits too, so it wont be going away in the near future.

Another shop I know of has a few Davey's left but the guys running them are in their 70's and maybe 80's. The owner says they have jobs for life, and when they retire the machines will be sold off and replaced with another swiss machine (Star). They have lots of Star sliding headstock machines now.

Let me know If you need any info, I can forward the rfq over to them if needed,

I would be interested. We have a number of parts that are run on Davenports and are always looking for additional suppliers. I have thought about buying one but just don't have the space. We are a manufacturers rep firm and distribute to the automotive, appliance, agricultural and aerospace industry. We typically purchase parts for completing small assemblies as well as providing services such as oring installation, thread sealant application etc. We also serve as sales reps on a commission basis for smaller firms. We currently are serving IN, OH, KY and parts of IL. We don't get in to MI. If you're looking for a rep then let me know.

Ox · Jul 5, 2022

latheman78 said:
What is the difference between a Davenport and an Acme?

20,000#

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Comatose · Jul 5, 2022

thistle3585 said:
I am not trying to be rude or beat people down on price but we have been paying 29 cents per piece

Not to be rude or beat you up, but is that a quote from this year? All metal is stupid right now (if you can get it at all) and we're headed into a recession, so by the time the job is done, scrap prices may well not be what they are now.

You're also bidding it as a rush job, so if a supplier says "regular price, but we're looking at four weeks delivery" and a second supplier says "double price, but we have stock" only the second guy is what someone can quote on.

You might consider offering it as customer supplied material, to take that risk off the machine shop.

It used to be "good, fast, cheap, pick any two" but this is 2022, so it's more "we can do it fast, once the material arrives. The material is triple what you're used to, so cheap is right out. We used to be able to at least offer good, but Earl's been on disability since his month in the hospital last year, and we have an 18 year old running this. You get what you get"

DDoug · Jul 5, 2022

thistle3585 said:
To all,
Thanks for the quotes that I have gotten so far. These have always been run on a screw machine. Based on the quotes I have received from members on this forum it seems that CNC machines are clearly not the best way to run it. I am not trying to be rude or beat people down on price but we have been paying 29 cents per piece and that is the price point we are targeting. We are just looking at adding a new source as we use between 100-125K a year.

So what quotes did you get from here now ?
BTW I just went back and looked at your OP, no where did you mention
your "Target Price".

That little bit of info would have saved several people much time.

latheman78 · Jul 5, 2022

I still never figured out how long the part was. Scrap has already started to drop from all time highs were I am at. The price of brass bar stock didn't spike like aluminum and stainless, but it is up at least 20% over 2 years ago. My idea was scrubbed once I heard there is something faster than an Acme, and Acmes were faster than I thought. It was been too long since I was around one. Heck with crazy shipping rates the OP should list their city, freight costs could easily factor in.

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

I will try to respond to several comments/questions that have been posted. My apologies for not putting a target price out there. That was my mistake. I also assumed inquiries pertaining to the project would have been addressed via email or private messenger. I also did not check this thread over the holiday weekend to respond to some of the questions that were raised in it. I received four quotes this morning from people on this site ranging between .79 to $4.50 per piece. I found another vendor off site via a referral that quoted it at .30 for a 25,000 piece order with delivery in 4-5 weeks which we are in discussions with in which to place the order. Only one person from this site asked for additional information on dimensions which I provided via email and I can only assume the others looked up the SAE standard for the dimensions. Again, I thought I'd post this request and people would contact me privately if they had questions about the drawing, shipping location etc. I'll keep that in mind when I post future RFQ's.

Ox · Jul 5, 2022

FWIW, many standards like that are not available for free.
SAE, ASTM, etc like to sell their literature, or get your membership fees.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

BROTHERFRANK · Jul 5, 2022

If you are still looking for a source, try Jerry at S&H Glenco in Ontario, Ca. Great Davenport shop.
(909) 984-3348

latheman78 · Jul 5, 2022

I don't understand why someone doesn't just list the length. I knew not to quote just guessing the length. I figured it would go under 50 cents, but not down to 30 cents. This is a job where you need everything just right, including a good exchange rate on scrap, like someone who is close to a mill can get.

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

latheman78 said:
I don't understand why someone doesn't just list the length. I knew not to quote just guessing the length. I figured it would go under 50 cents, but not down to 30 cents. This is a job where you need everything just right, including a good exchange rate on scrap, like someone who is close to a mill can get.

My expectations were that a business that does this kind of work would have access to the standards and if not then they would email me and ask for more specific information in order to prepare a quote.

Ox · Jul 5, 2022

I'm not finding where you listed your e-mail info here?

The length question was posed yet Thursday afternoon.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

Ox said:
I'm not finding where you listed your e-mail info here?

The length question was posed yet Thursday afternoon.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Everyone that contacted me did so through the forum messaging software. My email must be accessible through my profile as two people emailed me directly. I don't like to post my email on forums because it seems to result in junk mail so I rely more on the messaging portion of the website. As I mentioned earlier, I did not check the forum as I took off early for the holiday weekend. I think it was just a timing issue in this particular situation. I ended up with five quotes, got to have a nice email exchange between two members that I'll be touching base with next week about looking at other projects so I'd have to say that it was a fruitful experience on my end.

Ox · Jul 5, 2022

Yes, the new software has MUCH improved Private Messaging for sure!
I understand what you say about posting the mail address, especially when we have a messaging system that actually works decent.

But - you said that you got some mails, and that you expected that others would have pinged you through that.
As the moderator here, I am asking if someone did actually mail you, or did you just get a notice through the website that you had a private message?

I personally don't know how to find anyone's mail address or website links anymore. (new software issue)
I have asked that _ that issue gets put on the To-Doo list for the site programmer(s).
But if someone has found out how to find those, I would like to know?

I am not trying to nit pick you to death, just trying to fully understand and get on the same page per terms/meanings, especially with the new software.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

thistle3585 · Jul 5, 2022

Ox said:
Yes, the new software has MUCH improved Private Messaging for sure!
I understand what you say about posting the mail address, especially when we have a messaging system that actually works decent.

But - you said that you got some mails, and that you expected that others would have pinged you through that.
As the moderator here, I am asking if someone did actually mail you, or did you just get a notice through the website that you had a private message?

I personally don't know how to find anyone's mail address or website links anymore. (new software issue)
I have asked that _ that issue gets put on the To-Doo list for the site programmer(s).
But if someone has found out how to find those, I would like to know?

I am not trying to nit pick you to death, just trying to fully understand and get on the same page per terms/meanings, especially with the new software.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Got it. So, I did a little investigation and one person used the PM for my email, one found it on another thread I had posted in 2020 and a third used an email that I have for a hobby website. Not sure how that happened unless it too was from another post on this or another forum. It was bizarre and was clearly from overseas. So, my suggestion as someone that would like to post more RFQ's, I'd say have a section devoted specifically to it or at least encourage posts to be centered around the RFQ so people don't have to weed through discussions on whether an Acme or Davenport is a better machine. It keeps the discussion more focused on the RFQ. I'd also pin a post at the top in regards to what information should be included in an RFQ. The reason I posted the drawing that I did is because I don't want to post customer's confidential files online and I figured anyone that was truly interested would do the work to get more info. For me, its a way to qualify a potential vendor. Do I really want to do business with someone that can't navigate a simple messaging system? As I said, I had a very good exchange with two guys that reached out to me and asked questions and I'll be looking to continue that dialogue. Sorry, probably more then you really wanted or asked for.

Ox · Jul 6, 2022

thistle3585 said:
Got it. So, I did a little investigation and one person used the PM for my email, one found it on another thread I had posted in 2020 and a third used an email that I have for a hobby website. Not sure how that happened unless it too was from another post on this or another forum. It was bizarre and was clearly from overseas. So, my suggestion as someone that would like to post more RFQ's, I'd say have a section devoted specifically to it or at least encourage posts to be centered around the RFQ so people don't have to weed through discussions on whether an Acme or Davenport is a better machine. It keeps the discussion more focused on the RFQ. I'd also pin a post at the top in regards to what information should be included in an RFQ. The reason I posted the drawing that I did is because I don't want to post customer's confidential files online and I figured anyone that was truly interested would do the work to get more info. For me, its a way to qualify a potential vendor. Do I really want to do business with someone that can't navigate a simple messaging system? As I said, I had a very good exchange with two guys that reached out to me and asked questions and I'll be looking to continue that dialogue. Sorry, probably more then you really wanted or asked for.

A) The whole point of the Davenport subject was to try to mitigate a bunch of guys seeing your RFQ, and thinking that their shiny new 25mm Citizen with barfeeder and sub-spindle would be ideal for this. Resulting in even more of those $2 - $4 quotes that you got. Wasting their time, and the brass suppliers time, and even a wee bit of your time.

Most folks don't understand the high volume brass market. An RFQ like this comes around every few years, and everyone is chomping at the bit, not realizing that their competition will ship a complete part out the door for what they can buy the material for, or even less in some cases.

Then we get all the "Race to the Bottom" posters that don't understand how anyone can make $50/hr producing something at the cost of material.

Since you didn't put that ballpark price in your RFQ (and I wouldn't expect you to) I tried to educate the masses.

B) That discussion kept your RFQ topped and active in your stead, and there was no mud slinging.

C) One thing that this world doesn't need is one more sticky that the new guy doesn't read anyhow.

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ox · Jul 6, 2022

I also wanted to ask you - if you have that print loaded to this sites system?
We accept PDF's now?

If so, for both my curiosity, as well as for your customer's concerns, I ask that once you have gotten from this RFQ what you need, would you please see if you can delete that print on your own? (if on our server)

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

latheman78 · Jul 6, 2022

I think Ox's input is much appreciated, not sure why anyone would have a problem with it.

Overland · Jul 6, 2022

I don't know much about this market, but a $0.30 part every 5 seconds means about $216 per hour, gross.
With material costs, you really need to run a tight shop.
Not sure what your overall uptime would be either.
Impressive.
Bob

Highpockets01 · Sep 14, 2022

spaeth said:
Latheman, Spent early days in the Heading Tools Co. Small shop that specialized in that field. Seaway Bolt and several other local plants were banging out all sorts of cold formed threaded products. Not sure how big the straighteners could handle but they had (still have) some huge headers. Even back then (late 60's) they were running pipe plugs bigger then 1-1/4" in steel. Also not sure what the largest diameter they could make a 1/2" round coil after it was squished, pounded and poked multiple times. Pretty cool process.

Greetings from Pa, I saw your posts and wanted to touch base. I work for a company here in Evans City Pa , we manufacturer filler and drain plugs for engines.( Ford -Gm etc) We are
able to produce parts fro 1-16 up to 1 1/16 using National 5 die Cold Formers. We use Brass Aluminum as well as Low Carbon Steel. Brass and Aluminum come in round coils in pre drawn sizes from .343 -.871 as well as 1.062 Aluminum bars that are 25’ long that we run end to end .

RFQ -25000 3/8 brass plugs

Plastic

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