johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
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Greg White
Titanium
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2007
- Location
- Pinckney Mi.
Yep
Never ran a Zip nor a Moore,plenty of DeVliegs.
I would like to weigh in on G&Ls,so sweet,especially the era when they were making their own controllers.
Good story going on here folks.
Respect
gw
Never ran a Zip nor a Moore,plenty of DeVliegs.
I would like to weigh in on G&Ls,so sweet,especially the era when they were making their own controllers.
Good story going on here folks.
Respect
gw
Mikey D
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Location
- Good Ol Sunny Arizona
Boring with a torque plate
Jim,
I'm glad to see someone else using a torque plate on motorcycle cylinders! the last time I took apart my CR500 I found shadows around the head bolt areas. (and chatter marks from the bone head who I paid to bore and assemble it the first time! GRRRR!!!). I made up a torque plate on my trusty, not so dusty, south bend 9" and gave it to a trusted friend with an engine shop to bore.
This cylinder has lasted way longer and runs with more power than ever before. I really don't want to soon but am looking foward to seeing the cylinder the next time i need a new bullet.
First Pict is the torque plate and the shadow fromt the head stud.
Second Pict are the chatter marks. This guy tried to tell me that the piston rings must have made those marks!
Jim,
I'm glad to see someone else using a torque plate on motorcycle cylinders! the last time I took apart my CR500 I found shadows around the head bolt areas. (and chatter marks from the bone head who I paid to bore and assemble it the first time! GRRRR!!!). I made up a torque plate on my trusty, not so dusty, south bend 9" and gave it to a trusted friend with an engine shop to bore.
This cylinder has lasted way longer and runs with more power than ever before. I really don't want to soon but am looking foward to seeing the cylinder the next time i need a new bullet.
First Pict is the torque plate and the shadow fromt the head stud.
Second Pict are the chatter marks. This guy tried to tell me that the piston rings must have made those marks!
Attachments
donie
Diamond
- Joined
- May 17, 2003
- Location
- Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
Seems weird to attempt to bore Harley Davidson cylinders in a Moore Jigborer.
Slight problem there, the Moore has the same quill travel as a Bridgeport mill, 5"
HD cylinders are around 7" long!!!
However, the Moore does a pretty good job dusting the cylinder base true, with a Wolly=quickness.
Cylinder base cutting picture by
donsmonarch10ee - Photobucket
Slight problem there, the Moore has the same quill travel as a Bridgeport mill, 5"
HD cylinders are around 7" long!!!
However, the Moore does a pretty good job dusting the cylinder base true, with a Wolly=quickness.
Cylinder base cutting picture by
donsmonarch10ee - Photobucket
Jim's V-Twin
Plastic
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Location
- Mississippi
Mikey D.
Understand your consternation. I've been into a number of engines where things were done improperly . . . didn't show up right away, but obviously would over time.
In regard to spindle travel, which was commented on, the Moore Head is so rigid that you can retract the spindle and lower the head and begin recutting without being able to tell where you left off. The first time I did it I reasoned that there probably would be a slightly detectable imperfection that would be taken out by final honing, but it was a non-issue. As for the fellow who performs to bore on a lathe, whatever works for him. I just don't think you can jig a jug up on a lathe as quickly and as accurately as you can on a Moore #2. The table feeds and heads, with pre-loaded bearings, are so precision you're just not going to get the same accuracy.
BTW, I just completely rebuilt an 80" Evo for a fellow with a '98 H-D Night Train. The pinion shaft runout way exceeded factory specs, so the crank had to be re-trued. Since it was already torn down he had me go back with .005" oversize Screamin Eagle high compression pistons. Runs great.
Happy Machining to all.
Jim
Understand your consternation. I've been into a number of engines where things were done improperly . . . didn't show up right away, but obviously would over time.
In regard to spindle travel, which was commented on, the Moore Head is so rigid that you can retract the spindle and lower the head and begin recutting without being able to tell where you left off. The first time I did it I reasoned that there probably would be a slightly detectable imperfection that would be taken out by final honing, but it was a non-issue. As for the fellow who performs to bore on a lathe, whatever works for him. I just don't think you can jig a jug up on a lathe as quickly and as accurately as you can on a Moore #2. The table feeds and heads, with pre-loaded bearings, are so precision you're just not going to get the same accuracy.
BTW, I just completely rebuilt an 80" Evo for a fellow with a '98 H-D Night Train. The pinion shaft runout way exceeded factory specs, so the crank had to be re-trued. Since it was already torn down he had me go back with .005" oversize Screamin Eagle high compression pistons. Runs great.
Happy Machining to all.
Jim
Jim's V-Twin
Plastic
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Location
- Mississippi
Great shop setup! Impressive work!
Jim
Jim
donie
Diamond
- Joined
- May 17, 2003
- Location
- Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
The Jigborer now considered obsolete in industry, is a great machine for bike crankcase work.
I used Bridgeport for many years, the Moore is just plain more accurate and easier to use.
One little thing I like is, the spindle housing can be quickly retracted for gaging a bore, and then returned without losing true.
The Bridgeport, its either moving the table or lowering the knee, "not good".
If the Moore is in good shape, the spindle will be true to the table, regardless of quill extension and spindle housing location.
The table locking devises on the Moore, do not deflect the table, not so on the Bridgeport.
I modded the #2 for the finer quill feed of the #3 machine, .00075".
I did this by removing the Spindle speed indicator generator, and placing a compound pulley in its place, and using two belts to drive the quill feed box.
I installed a digital tach, with its sender reading a thin steel disk glued to the spindle drive pulley.
Many ways to go about HD cylinders. My main objective is, to have the cylinder base true to the bore.
I used Bridgeport for many years, the Moore is just plain more accurate and easier to use.
One little thing I like is, the spindle housing can be quickly retracted for gaging a bore, and then returned without losing true.
The Bridgeport, its either moving the table or lowering the knee, "not good".
If the Moore is in good shape, the spindle will be true to the table, regardless of quill extension and spindle housing location.
The table locking devises on the Moore, do not deflect the table, not so on the Bridgeport.
I modded the #2 for the finer quill feed of the #3 machine, .00075".
I did this by removing the Spindle speed indicator generator, and placing a compound pulley in its place, and using two belts to drive the quill feed box.
I installed a digital tach, with its sender reading a thin steel disk glued to the spindle drive pulley.
Many ways to go about HD cylinders. My main objective is, to have the cylinder base true to the bore.
bishop265
Plastic
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Location
- baltimore Maryland
Linley jig locking lever
Does anyone know which direction, UP or DOWN? The locking lever on the left hand side of the head of a Linley boring jig needs to go to unlock it? -thanks
Does anyone know which direction, UP or DOWN? The locking lever on the left hand side of the head of a Linley boring jig needs to go to unlock it? -thanks
MauriceG
Plastic
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2004
- Location
- Northern Utah
I would love to add that book to my library. I have "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore c.1970 also published by the Moore Special Tool Co. It was reprinted in 1989 and is a wonderful history of the subject.
Maurice
Cole2534
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2010
- Location
- Oklahoma City, OK
I'd love to have it too, but Amazon wants 289$.
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
Did all the jig making and then pattern milling on this pattern on the Pratt & Whitney 3B.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/259275.html?1347842613
cballen
Plastic
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2005
- Location
- Sandia Park NM
Hi folks,
This discussion brings back memories from my apprenticeship days(1974).
In my 3rd year I was able to run a SIp,Dixi, and P+W jig bores.
Great machines. The Dixi and Sip were in a temp and humidity controlled room (very comfortable in the summer in the DC Area).
The P+W had these magnetic scales that were really cool, very accurate.
There was a small trash can next to the Dixi. A long aluminum chip from the drill I was using fell in to the trash can. It just so happened that the
other end of the chip cane to rest against the 120v outlet. Presto! Fire! It was a small one,I was able to put out right away but after that no more trash cans next to the machine. I'd love to get one but I haven't used one since.
Thanks jimK for the trip down memory lane.
Carl
This discussion brings back memories from my apprenticeship days(1974).
In my 3rd year I was able to run a SIp,Dixi, and P+W jig bores.
Great machines. The Dixi and Sip were in a temp and humidity controlled room (very comfortable in the summer in the DC Area).
The P+W had these magnetic scales that were really cool, very accurate.
There was a small trash can next to the Dixi. A long aluminum chip from the drill I was using fell in to the trash can. It just so happened that the
other end of the chip cane to rest against the 120v outlet. Presto! Fire! It was a small one,I was able to put out right away but after that no more trash cans next to the machine. I'd love to get one but I haven't used one since.
Thanks jimK for the trip down memory lane.
Carl
hitandmiss
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2010
- Location
- Rochester, NY USA
As of the last 5 years or so, well equiped SIP's and Moore's are bringing scrap metal prices, less than really tired and stripped Bridgeports. The last one I saw, the buyer bought it for $100 and took the .0001" sony scales and left the mint machine! How sad.
Bill
Bill
meanestmachinist
Plastic
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2010
- Location
- massachusetts
a jig borer is for boring jigs
43monarch
Aluminum
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Location
- pacific northwest
To help answer the question of what do you use a Jig borer for.My use for the 1 1/2 Moore I have is to build fixtures to hold heads for other machining operations.Today I am working on a fixture for holding a KJ Henderson intake manifold to machine the intake valve pockets,seats and guide holes on the bridgeport.The accuracy required for the placement of the holes requires it so that repeatability is a possibility.I guess there is always an upside to the scrapping out of America,sad but it does create opportunities.I,ll post some pics this evening of this project.
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
This - from 1928 - when they were driven by flapping belts - is always worth reading. Hopefully the new PB will still make it big enough to be legible
8PiecesofIron.jpg photo by johnoder | Photobucket
8PiecesofIron.jpg photo by johnoder | Photobucket
sticks
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2012
- Location
- Mid-Michigan, USA
We had a 6" G&L (IIRC) in our tool room that was tight for its age but seldom used. Older guys who hobbed gears & did other tough walk-ins wouldn't touch our cheesy two Tree 325s or the 425 CNCs and preferred the jig-bore's easier setup/precision for locating. Worst day of my career might have been hearing I missed the auction when the plant was liquidated some time after I retired. Missed out on the 4 Cinci #2 tool grinders I'd had to myself 10 yrs or so for production tool work, tho' the backup I'd bought earlier is ok. Worst of all, I heard the jig-bore didn't sell & was scrapped. (aaack!) DRO locating/pattern software on my Grizzly manual is pretty cool, but holding a whole thou' is a matter of sheer luck any day ... :-/
tlfamm
Aluminum
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2009
- Location
- New England, USA
A 32-page brochure detailing the Pratt & Whitney jig borer product line in some technical detail:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1412/3448.pdf
The document is undated, but looks to be circa 1930's - 1940's.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1412/3448.pdf
The document is undated, but looks to be circa 1930's - 1940's.
johnoder
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2004
- Location
- Houston, TX USA
Thanks tlfamm - January 1949 - and the only ball roll quill is shown on the new 4E. My 3B was made that year, also no ball roll quill
[email protected]
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2001
- Location
- Gaston, Oregon USA
Wow, a real blast from the past- I was the first to post a reply to this one in 2002. At that time I had a #3 Moore, and maybe by then a Kearney and Trecker Autometric. Fast forward 11 years, and still
virtually every day I'm operating some sort of jig bore. The Moores size limitations quickly became apparent as I was making larger and larger machines, so now I use three large Sip jig bores as well as Devlieg Jigmils.
I also regularly use a Bridgeport mill. I marvel at how effortlessly I can move the rather gigantic table on the Sip 7A in ten thousanths increments. I can SPLIT a tenth as easily on that machine, as I can machine to the the thousanths
on the Bridgeport. With FOUR FEET of daylight under the spindle, with the head in its upper position, the problems of boring deep holes in tall castings are a thing of the past.
It's an absolute joy to use some of the finest machines ever made. Its taken a long time, but with the full set of tilting rotary tables and a full assortment of tooling, these machines ARE pretty efficient. But this year I stepped up and bought
a CNC vertical machining center, which is built just like a Sip. Two columns, the spindle housing travels on a rail, gigantic table. It will be interesting in a year to see which ones I gravitate to the most.
virtually every day I'm operating some sort of jig bore. The Moores size limitations quickly became apparent as I was making larger and larger machines, so now I use three large Sip jig bores as well as Devlieg Jigmils.
I also regularly use a Bridgeport mill. I marvel at how effortlessly I can move the rather gigantic table on the Sip 7A in ten thousanths increments. I can SPLIT a tenth as easily on that machine, as I can machine to the the thousanths
on the Bridgeport. With FOUR FEET of daylight under the spindle, with the head in its upper position, the problems of boring deep holes in tall castings are a thing of the past.
It's an absolute joy to use some of the finest machines ever made. Its taken a long time, but with the full set of tilting rotary tables and a full assortment of tooling, these machines ARE pretty efficient. But this year I stepped up and bought
a CNC vertical machining center, which is built just like a Sip. Two columns, the spindle housing travels on a rail, gigantic table. It will be interesting in a year to see which ones I gravitate to the most.
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