Very large 1-person manual shops - is this unusual?

Is it taboo to compare how much us one man shops incomes compare? It sure would be interesting to me just to see how well or not I'm doing. I'm usually around 200K gross but last year was close to 300K. Some short run production work but mostly tooling and job shop stuff and a little injection molding.

Schliebe......what kind of equipment and shop size? And no, not taboo but some of us play the cards close. You never know when a customer, etc is lurking.....I've actually had customers try to acertain what percentage of my work their stuff was (not from the forum). I presume so they can decide how much they can bully.....At times this whole thing can be like a poker game.


OT---I was actually amazed at how many guys were willing to post their wages in that other post. When doing my duty as shop babysitter and guys would discover each others wages (by breaking the policy they had agreed to) a few thing always seemed to happen. The higher paid guy would adopt a superior attitude and the lower paid guy would be pissed because most machinists think they're the best. (natures way of keeping shops filled for the pittance this trade pays). Another good reason to test your mettle doing your own gig....

Well I guess this thread has already been moved from the manual to also the CNC and automatic/automated equipment as well...

I currently fit this bill. Had plenty of help 10 yrs ago - but have been on my own since '98. I had three full timers and they were all working overtime at that. Within a few months time and after a few yrs on the job - one bought a bar and went into business for himself (Not his brightest move) and another moved to a shop that had family coverage rather than just the employee. The third looked around and saw WAY too much work needing done and bailed.

I decided that if I made it outta that mess alive, I would certainly look at employing in a much diff light. I have no ill feelings towards any of them, and in the long run I can see that it was the best thing for everyone involved - and the LORD prolly had a hand in the whole thing. When fall 2000 and then on into 2001 came along - I was Shirely glad to not have payroll to meet!

I have had a cpl regular part timers in the mean time now and aggin. Now it is the 15 yr old boy. (He's not getting outta this house alive w/o knowing what's what!)

I runa CNC shop now as the automatics (screw machine) business has went for the most part overseas. I have had four CNC's - but just moved one CNC out and a number of other manual machines, and brought in three more CNC's - greatly increasing the size of part capacity for both turing and milling. Just tryin' to open a few more doors while the market is good.

As for gross sales, I generally gross as much depending on the yr as I did with 150+ pd man hrs/week other than my own $20/week pay. '06 set a new record and '07 has started WAY busier than I have EVER seen Jan/Feb in my 17 yrs in business.

I feel quite relieved not to be low balling new werk to keep my guys that are depending on me for their next stack of monthly bills. In a smaller shop - employees are not just employees. These guys are your chumms. You werk shoulder to shoulder with them. You know their famillies and their unique situations. They are NOT just another SS number on the payroll!

I just may get back into the employing game aggin - IF the right werk comes around. But mostly I am leaning to more room to keep my personal efficiencies up and add more automation.

In farming alone as a kid, and running my shop alone for the last 9-10 yrs - the worst thing that has happened per being alone was as a HS kid I made the mistake late at night and not thinking to run the manual ratchet type (hydraulic) cyl on the harrogator up - expecting it to stop on it's own like it does on the grain drill - and running it past the threads - while standing in the middle of the unit. It went through my head on that last stroke that maybe this won't stop like the grain drill and maybe it is high enough. My brain was 1/4 stroke too slow...

Harrogator crashes to the ground with me still standing in the midst of it. I look down and with the light from the tractor I can see that yes - indeed - my hoof WAS not only under the angle iron runer - but it appears that a shank is through my hiking type shboot.

Now what? It is O'Dark:30 and they know that I am out here fitting ground - but no-one will know that I am in trouble 'till 5:30 when it comes time to doo chores and my truck is still at the barn....

I was barely able to reach the body of the screw cyl (Big ACME threaded cast body) that had went'a flyin' and of course the two ends were still pinned to the frame of the unit - and flopped over the other ways. I highly expected the end threads to be buggered enough that I would not be able to thread it together - but the LORD protects the stupid it seems and they threaded right togather. Before long I was raising the harro and I could feel the post pulling outta my shboot/foot with each stroke of the ratchet.

Everything seemed OK - but by no means could it be - and I must still be in shock as I could walk to and climb up on the tractor and even run the clutch. Once to the barn I checked it out and it never actually penetrated - but really pushed the foot asside and pinched some skin enough that I still may be able to find the marks now - even over 20 yrs later.

In the shop I have done bad things to my back and sliced rat through a tendon. Been another close call with a 4000# bundle of 1-13/16" steel 6' up on the rack once too - but came out smelling like a .... well never mind what I smelled like after that - but you get the point eh? LOL!

I am not Mr. Safety and I enjoy werking alone. I did NOT start my shop with any intentions other than a job fer myself. (and only tooling and repairs - no production!) The werk that I doo is almost 100% production now - but I still don't care to employ others. Maybe it's an ego trip for some? Maybe they actually believe that the more folks you gots werking fer you - the more you make? Sometimes that's true - but not always.

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Doesn't the need for employees depend upon the product(s) and the desired production rate?

If you are building a complex, multi-part, widget, and want to turn out some significant number in a year, you probably need a workforce.

That is usually done because you have to sell a fair number to make any money. If instead you are making either one off things or really niche market things, one person can probably do it cheaper.

The man had a contract for a certain machine. It had about 18 different 'set-ups' to complete this device. The time saved in having a machine already set up for the next operation would truly be a time saver and allow one man to be efficient and meet deadlines.

I knew a man who obtained a government contract to supply a sinle device for a helicopter. It was, if I recall, a small window on the left side forward of the cockpit. Several operations were required to complete.

And another shop in Pekin, IL, (only ten employees) that was awarded a contract to build the armor panels for the vehicles headed to Iraq.

Could be something along this line that these two shops (in the original post) were engaged in.

We (wife and I) are just beginning our 21st year in our CNC job shop. Until the end of 2005, we employed 10-15 people. We are now a one-man shop, one-woman office, in our 50's, ABLE to retire but not quite READY to retire. We own our bldg and land, everything is paid for, and we've downsized to only 2 or 3 customers that provide enough income to support us and the shop yet give us plenty of time to do whatever else we want to do. We'll probably keep that up for another few years until we decide we're ready to hang it up for good. Although our years of running a bigger shop with employees is the reason we're where we are today, we are very ready to be a one-man operation at this point in our journey. The one thing we didn't really think through when we started 21 yrs. ago was that being a business owner was also going to mean being an employer. We're happy to be in a position that we can choose to give up the later part of that equation. In our experience, Federal and State government agencies and all their red tape (as well as health and workers comp insurance issues) just keep making it less and less attractive to have employees.

Hey, D. Thomas.
Do you make the Procyon? I convinced my boss to get one for our shop and we couldn't live without it now. We even have some one that does nothing but tap and deburr parts coming off the cnc's because the taping arm can do it so much faster.
Merl

Large vs. small. This depends on your desires. Are you extremely good at cranking handles or does your expertise lie in management? If you get more than a few employees, you will spend a large portion of your time in sales and bookeeping and little time in the shop.

I opened my shop in 1979 due to pressure from people I knew at various companies. They knew I had the skill and work ethic to provide them with a quality product. My reputation for taking on the jobs no one else would bid on kept me profitable.

I had as many as 12 employees and pared it down to three by the time I sold many years later. I never hired anyone that I didn't know personally and that kept the quality and attendance at an acceptable level.

If you are truly a master at your trade and you are tired of working with chimps, then the one man shop is absolutely the right goal to strive for. It's not always profitable, so you must be prepared for the lean times. Spend a few years driving junk cars and not going on vacations so you can sock away at least six months of cash to live on. Once you spend the money during start-up you should begin to save again for a future lean period.

Start collecting equipment and support tooling now and store it in your garage. I'm talking about surface plates, jo-blocks, big micrometers, a comparator, band saw, etc. Haunt the auctions but resist the temptation to buy anything that won't fit in the bed of your truck.

My shop was absolutely the best thing I ever did as it satisfied my artistic side as a MoldMaker. Go for it if you can afford it!

The one disadvantage I can see to a 1-man shop is that there are some jobs, or some aspects of most jobs, that you just don't want to have to do yourself when you are making time on a project. Packing, shipping, responding to phone calls, trips for materials, unloading materials, cleanup, etc. Even when you are really efficient, theres no sense investing your valuable time into tasks that a high school kid can do for you.


Hey that's what the Wife is for <G>.I have a 1 man 1 Wife shop started in 1972, lots of screw machines & cnc's, yes wife runs them also.

I ran a one man mold shop for years. Took in a partner that was growth happy. Wound up with 21 employees at one point. Things would get a little slow and partner would quote jobs ridiculously low just to keep the crew working. Then we would get most of the work that he quoted. Then I couldn't get anything done because I was always on the phone warding off irate hostile customers because we were swamped with more work than we had hours in the day. I finally sold out to partner so I didn't have to kill him.

I know a shop in Van Nuys that must be pushing 10,000sq ft thats mostly a 1 man show & occassionally has a 2nd bloke who comes in to "help out".
Next time I drop by there I'll make sure to take notice of what he has. The place is packed with machinery.

I am having so much fun running my 1 man shop ( sometimes 2) , going on 24 years .But the biggest hassle is having to stop to tell some home handy man that, sorry we do not sell steel scraps , drops , or small pieces, unless it is a finished machined part .
Hate to be a jerk and blow people off, but it really screws up the work flow, especially when they have to tell you a story , on why they need , etc , bla bla bla , yadayada FBB

Bob:
I buy Stainless offcuts from a local fab shop. Usually works out to $20 for "as much as you can easily carry"........ which suits me just fine

Hey, D. Thomas.
Do you make the Procyon? I convinced my boss to get one for our shop and we couldn't live without it now. We even have some one that does nothing but tap and deburr parts coming off the cnc's because the taping arm can do it so much faster.
Merl

Click to expand...

I made the Squaretap and the company name was, and still is, Procyon. Glad you like it

Milacron, who used to be D. Thomas

I opened up shop 7 years ago. I love it. One man show all the way.
I recommend not compromising quality, that will just bring the wrong kind of customers to your door, the guys looking for a "deal". And keep a "hard nose" on pricing. I would rather tune up a tool, sweep up or read a book than work for nuts or at a loss.

Be careful here, this could be the owner's wife looking for a supportive second opinion.....LOL

Just kidding. does seem to be a bit of a waste when you think about it...but it would definately save on sete up times for various repitition piece work.....

One cool thing about a one man shop is that you can pretty much start your own with very little space and very few tools.

I dont even have a house and a garage, i rent, but i visit my girlfriend's dad's disused shop and brother's garage on weekends to do metal working and various creations. I have managed to build machines i couldn't afford, and invent products to sell. I most certainly want to buy a house, but i fully intend to have the garage pay for the house, as i would spend most of my time in there creating something or cutting something up.
This thread has given me hope. I see some have gotten to this point as an end goal, and i feel much better about my idea's of starting my own shop and working solo. Armed with CAD programs, hack saw's, and files, i've managed to set up production lines on a small scale and kick out various creations to sell. My mind is the most valuable tool in the shop, and i have learned a lot about being self sufficient and working around problems when trying to achieve much with very little in the way of tool and gear.

On a side note, dealing with employee's, I have a question.

I live in an city with a pretty high homeless population. I have a product i intend to have made that would require some assembly. I may likely have plenty of time to do all the assembly myself, but i always wondered how it would work if one were to travel to some of the area's where the homeless congregate and offer them a few hours of work out the back of a van or truck doing peice work. Assuming they can do the work, and they would want to do the work for however long they like, what legal barriers might there be for this?

Sorry, i dont want to hijack this in that direction too far.

One man shop, mix of manual and cnc.
Last night and today running lights outs no man shop. the cnc's are my hired hands, work all night never complain. I set an alarm in my pda to go off every hour then it's a one man shop for ten minutes.

I used to be a baby sitter for grown men. No matter what you did it was never good enough. The cnc's are like Britney Spears, give me more.

when I had employees I used to work just as hard but with more BS than I cared to shovel.

so running from monday morning 8am until wednesday 2am is a small price to pay.

regards, Mark

This is a great thread. I am currently working in a one man machine shop for a large packaging company. I really like the job, but am considering trying to start a small shop for myself.It seems that they want me to be able to make anything they can dream up with just an idea of what they want to accomplish with no idea of what it takes to make that dream become a reality, much less any kind of drawing to work with. We have a well worn 15" x 30" Clausing lathe and 2 Chinaho milling machines along with a 20' cheap drill press, a nice tig welder and 135 hobart handler mig welder. A worn out horizontal bandsaw and a 16" Jet vertical bandsaw which would be a great setup for a home shop but we have almost 40 packaging lines with 7 to 10 different machines per line as well as lots of conveyors running 24/7.I have to make all the parts that we don't have in stock as well as all the pet projects that engineering can come up with and it's like they get insulted if they have to spend over $1500 a month for shop supplies, tooling and materials. but they can spend 6 -10,000 bucks on the stupidest stuff like teflon that we've prolly used $300 dollars wotrh of. It took 3 months to get them to buy a 18v cordless drill for the shop. I dont't get it! I've been trying to get the company shop tooled up a little each month for over 2 years. kinda like johnny cash getting his Cadillac 1 piece at a time. an endmill here a reamer there. I guess I've been getting the job done with what I have on hand but it has made for some strange setups and a lot of wasted time not having the right tool do the job. Oh well here I go off on a tangent didn't mean to hijack this thread. Thanks for the great thread and one day i will have my own one man shop.

booster:
for the assembly try the local salvation army or goodwill.
here in fla. if you use goodwill the state will help with the wages...jim