sfriedberg
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2010
- Location
- Oregon, USA
Aaron, I'll be very interested to hear how well these hold up in use, once you've make all the appropriate "thickenings".
Aaron, I'll be very interested to hear how well these hold up in use, once you've make all the appropriate "thickenings".
aarongough;3733114SNIP Other potential costs involved in the process - 1) LCD screen replacements... The screen is a consumable and needs to be replaced every 2000 hours or so at a cost of about $100. 2) Alcohol for washing parts 3)[COLOR=#ff0000 said:Labor for post-processing[/COLOR]
4) Amortized cost of machine and post-processing equipment
SNIP
Total cost for 10 parts: $14.33
Cost per part: $1.43
Even at double that I think it would still be a bargain! Especially given that it's not a specialized process. I can print a mix of parts simultaneously or in series, and use the machine for short-turn prototyping as well!
-Aaron
So, detailed total cost for a batch of 10 parts:
Resin: $8.60
Alcohol: $0.30
Printer amortization (@ 2.5 hrs): $0.266
Post-processing amortization (@2.5 hrs): $0.155
Electricity (2.5 hrs @ 40W @ $.21/kwh): $0.021
Labor (5 mins @ $60/hr): $5.00
Total cost for 10 parts: $14.33
Cost per part: $1.43
Even at double that I think it would still be a bargain! Especially given that it's not a specialized process. I can print a mix of parts simultaneously or in series, and use the machine for short-turn prototyping as well!
-Aaron
@Aaron - I like your idea of creating the part to be more support friendly. I just make toys, so filing and sanding isn't a big deal, but no way I would want to do it on tens or hundreds of the same parts. Question, what software do you use to model, and do you export as an stl or xmf file type afterwards? Is that part free form to be aesthetically acceptable/pleasing, or is it done by creating arcs and lines and trimming them together?
Hey mate!
I model everything in Fusion and export as STLs currently. For slicing I use PrusaSlicer for FDM and Lychee for resin prints.
The sheath model is shaped the way it is largely for functional reasons, it basically forms a 0.080" shell around the form of the knife with some extra clearance to prevent binding, and some places where the shape acts as a 'spring' to retain the knife... Honestly it may not look it, but that sheath model is easily the model difficult 3D model I've ever had to make!
I have found that altering the model/orientation with 3D printing in mind really makes a big difference. I asked a 3rd party to print some of those sheaths in a resin printer for testing and they did a dog of a job because the part was oriented to minimize print time, rather than to minimize supports! I printed the same part and it looks miles better... Shame the resin I have on hand is too brittle!
Still waiting for the resins from Siraya Tech to arrive unfortunately...
-A
@LOTT:
I have a lot of pride in being able to call myself an 'ok' machinist, but I think it would take a lot of time for me to get to the point where making an injection mold would be a quick and 'one shot' task...
Also the part in question would require a somewhat complicated mold to make it, it would need at least one slide to form the 'tunnel' that goes through the part I believe. Unless it were molded 'end on' in which case the geometry of the mold would be very deep and I'd probably have to use a sinker EDM to make it, or make a mold out of stacked plates or something, which would likely preclude any possibility of texturing the part unless I added a lot of draft, which in turn would make the part look a bit weird.
While I would LOVE to count injection molding amongst my skills I think it would be a bad choice for this part. Quantity would be 500/year MAX, and the investment in learning to make the mold, the mold itself plus molding equipment would account for probably several hundred hours of work, plus thousands and thousands of dollars of capital investment. Not what I would consider to be a reasonable investment for what is probably 500x a $5 part each year.
Additionally each mold would very much be a 'one trick pony'. If a customer comes to me with an idea for improving the part, or I find an issue then I'm back at square one and have to re-invest in a new mold.
The part in question would already ideally come in two flavors, one designed for casual 'dress' belts that you'd wear with jeans or whatever, and another designed for active service personnel (military & police) who would need a larger version for use with a gun belt. So that's two molds right out of the gate...
Additionally molding only really works if I want to do a large run of parts and then keep inventory, but again I've found in the past that doing that usually bites me as it precludes making improvements or changes 'on the fly' and can also eat up a lot of storage space.
3D printing, if I can make the materials properties work, is kind of a unicorn technology for my business I think. I get the flexibility to make changes whenever I need/want, I can make parts 'just in time' to eliminate the need for storage, I can more easily accommodate customer requests for custom changes or improvements, and the space and investment is fairly minimal for the machinery involved.
If the labor turns out to be the sticking point then I think at that point I'd look at what investments could be made to minimize it. For instance a small automated cleaning line where you mount the build plate straight onto it and then it goes through cleaning tanks and a curing station would speed things up quite a bit.
One question: how come you're cleaning your resin tank after each print? I have been cleaning mine about once a week and simply topping it up between parts with good results so far!
All of this assumes that I can find a resin with acceptable material properties for the use case, which is still something I'm working on! If that doesn't happen then honestly the answer will likely be that this part is simply not worth making, given that it's basically meant to be a 'value add' rather than an essential component of my basic design...
-Aaron
1. There are a variety of FDM materials (which is not SLA of course) - some of which I've found useful for things like "buffers" on an FP1 (a kind of rubber spring to keep students from jamming it by bottoming the travels) and the making of other useful things (a basket for fetching tennis balls out of the lake...) Is this true of SLA as well? Seems like a much narrower range of materials? (PLA seems most widely used and least interesting. Does SLA suffer from this as well?)
2. There are FDM materials I have not tried (yet) that are "metallic" - but they require some relatively elaborate oven treatment (sintering, or just baking.) Anybody tried any of these? Surely no similar thing (aluminum or copper material) for SLA?
3. In addition to the observation above about injection molding is maybe not as hard as we think for simple parts, it seems that some FDM materials are suited well-enough to investment casting. I wonder if SLA works for this? (Mold "investment" around it, "burn" it out, then cast aluminum, say???)
4. Aaron - do you think any of the SLA materials would be "real world good enough" - assuming correct design to avoid notch issues and so forth? I can say that for *some* tasks *some* FDM materials are actually really hard to beat. So far, aside from the sideways belt device mentioned above, SLA seems to be about non-functional parts (models, mock-ups, etc.)
I think that the tougher resins like the one I recently tested "Siraya Tech BLU" are probably fine for functional parts assuming minimal shock loading and relatively thick sections. For machinery parts I wouldn't want to go thinner than 1/4" or so I think, for simple instrument jigs and so on you can probably go thinner than that.Hi, My employer is looking into buying and I know they'll buy one heck of a lot better than me, so I'm kind of holding on to them, but I can just buy one to play with. ... I still think it's too expensive, but I think it's worth buying worktime
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