source for cannode blue and yellow (or red)

I've never had any issues with my Canode drying or separating (maybe just a good batch, or our humidity), but when it runs out I have a few new tubes of the Stewarts Micrometer Blue and Dykem High Spot that I'll switch too.

Eventually I would like to play with the old-school recipes of mixing red-lead and prussian blue, if nothing else then just to understand how they used to do it and how it relates to the modern inks.

I seem to remember an old black and white video where they didn't use any ink or pigment, just plain alcohol as a lubricant, and relied on how the high spots burnished and reflected light to know where to scrape. That would be an exercise in skill to do successfully IMO.

I purchased some Prussian blue and some yellow dry artist's pigment. I put a small amount of each in a shallow jar and added acetone until the pigments we're soluble. I let the acetone evaporate and close the jar. I keep a dauber in each jar, add a small amount of spindle or similar oil and apply to the respective surface. While this isn't water soluble, it is easy to find. The colors are vibrant and it is easy to work with. I would be hesitant to use this on a pink plate, but mine is black. When I am done a small amount of mineral spirits followed by surface plate cleaner is all it takes to clean up.

I just bought some powdered pigments to experiment with. I've got Prussian Blue and Red Lead for printing, as well a some White Lead for center lube (lots of warning labels on that one). Bought them from here: Natural Pigments

I'm going through some old books for "recipes," but what carriers would you guys recommend to mix with them? I know red lead and linseed oil is popular in the wood boat world. I wonder if the same would work for printing, and the same mixture for the Prussian blue? I plan to do like gwilley above and mix them in a jar big enough to keep an applicator dauber with each one. I've read that the white lead can be mixed by folding it into grease until it creates a firm butter.

M.B. Naegle said:

I just bought some powdered pigments to experiment with. I've got Prussian Blue and Red Lead for printing, as well a some White Lead for center lube (lots of warning labels on that one). Bought them from here: Natural Pigments

I'm going through some old books for "recipes," but what carriers would you guys recommend to mix with them? I know red lead and linseed oil is popular in the wood boat world. I wonder if the same would work for printing, and the same mixture for the Prussian blue? I plan to do like gwilley above and mix them in a jar big enough to keep an applicator dauber with each one. I've read that the white lead can be mixed by folding it into grease until it creates a firm butter.

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I will have to look, I sure thought at one point I came across a book in the break room at work. It was from the late 1800's or early 1900's that had all kinds of "recipes" for white lead and red lead.

I found a recipe for Prussian Blue in one book. "The English and American Mechanic" by B. Frank Van Cleve, 1889. It's a nifty book with a lot of Machinist Handbook style charts and information, but the last 1/3 of the book is all recipes for various lacquers and coatings, soft metal compositions, heat treating compounds, etc. On page 210:
***
Prussian Blue - Take Nitric Acid, any quantity, and as much iron shavings from the lathe as the acid will dissolve; heat the iron as hot as it can be handled with the hand; then add to the acid in small quantities as long as the acid will dissolve it; then slowly add double the quantity of soft water that there was of acid, and put in iron again as long as the acid will dissolve it. 2. Take Prussiate of Potash, dissolve it in hot water to make a strong solution, and make sufficient of it with the first to give the depth of tint desired, and the blue is made. Or -

Another Method - A very passable Prussian blue is made by taking sulphate of iron (copperas) and Prussiate of Potash, equal parts of each; and dissolving each separately in water, then mixing the two waters.
***
So these methods are much more elemental, but it looks like these compounds are still available and would seem to make a water based Prussian Blue.

Suggest looking up health hazards of nitric acid before using.

M. B., I've got to question your choice to intentionally bring lead compounds into your shop. while I'm not in some irrational panic over lead, it is just totally unnecessary and unless you practice careful disposal, it is adding more lead to the world.
It's young children that are damaged most by lead, but unless there is a compelling reason to, WHY?
the old trope "well I grew up eating lead for breakfast and I did fine' is just nonsense. we have the data now be smarter than that.

on the topic, I recall a post about a product that was available through Blick art supply, is that the Charbonnel?

Everything I've ever read and been told has been that while there are substitutes for white lead, nothing is quite as good as it, which is the primary reason I want to give it a shot. That and I want a better base-line for how the old stuff works compared to what's around today. I bought a 4oz. jar of each component (that are sold all the time to artists and art restorers) to compare them to the alternatives, not to replace them.

With all DIY shop chemistry, I think you need to follow the same safety practices as you would in any other chemistry environment. As lucky brings up, understand the materials before you mess with them. Wear a mask around the powder, and gloves all the time. Only use what's required and wash your hands.

I remember way back Forrest saying to use a short fiber grease when mixing your own blue from Prussian Blue powder. Short fiber meaning if you take a pinch of it in your fingers, and open them quickly, it breaks into small strands rather than stretching out. I did try making some, and it did work. Didn't try to duplicate Canode though; I would think if using actual Prussian Blue it would stain your hands about the same whether water based or oil/grease based. It's some crazy stuff.

IIRC Forrest had also done some research on different pigments and rating their suitability. Some were somewhat abrasive because of their particular grain structure and some had particles that were larger than desirable. Red, blue, yellow, black and white wouldn't be the only options though you might not want your shop to look like a carnival.

Here is a link to a prior post describing my attempts to adjust the viscosity and clumping of charbonnel.
I never did get the stand oil charbonnel sells to thin their ink. I need to go ahead and get some.

Last week I was at Riches Oklahoma scraping class. At home I use a soft solid rubber brayer to spread the blue. Rich uses soft foam paint "trim" rollers and a hard solid brayer. I found that the soft foam roller would remove the clumps if rubbed "sideways" over the clump. The "sideways" rub does not rotate the roller. I assume the clump is abraded and spreads into the pores in the foam. I would lift up and rotate the roller so the pigment would be distributed.

Thanks Jeff. I am sure glad you came. I'm heading home tomorrow. I've been doing some maintenance here. On the ink. I first squirt a figure 8 spread about 12" long of the Canode ( I have a lot left) on the plate first and then dab from the tube top the Prussian blue Charbonnel to darken the Canode in about 5 places on an area about 8" x 20" and roll at first with the soft foam 1" paint roller and then use a hard rubber brayer to thin the inks. I also like to rub the parts on a bare, no ink part of the plate to "shine" the highest high spots. I use the water based Charbonnel. They have oil base too. We tested it in Austria and it stained your fingers like Dykem. I think people have a favorite ink and no one has the best - I think Dykem is the best but don't use it because I don't use anything that does not stain your fingers, nose, ears, etc. lol.

Were talking about doing another class in Rockford IL at Borne & Koch in Feb or next year and I have asked Jeff to come and assist me as he is now what I consider a Journeyman Rebuilder.

Yan Wo said:

I have WAY too much Canode 2243 blue and yellow (from Artco). I you want some, PM me.

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how much is WAY to much? looking for our shop.