What's new
What's new

Mill to complement SB Lathe Capabilities?

SteveH8861

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Those little 6x26 knee mills are nice looking.
I too was considering one of those at one time. I ended up buying a standard x3 mill with the intention of cnc'ing it. The cost of the x3 and my cnc conversion is still under 2000$.

As Paula pointed out, the x3 while small has a rather large work area. It's a pretty rigid little mill.
My x3 since I converted it to cnc now has 7.5" of Y travel as well.

Steve
 

Alex Wetmore

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
Seattle, WA
Wow, Alex... I'm glad you found a mill you're happy with, but in comparing the 3102 with the SX3, I arrived at the exact opposite conclusion. The 3102 has not much more capability (in some cases, much less) for a WHOLE LOT more money (nearly a thousand dollars more!)

I was confused about the price because I couldn't find the SX3 on Grizzly's site this morning. At Harbor Freight (I know the machines are likely lower quality than the Grizzly ones even if they come from the same factory) the price difference was only $400. That is because Grizzly has a much higher markup on the 6x26 than the SX3.

Before deciding to purchase the G0619 (Seig SX3) mill, I did consider the 3102, but it fell short in so many important respects that there was no way I could justify the huge difference in price. I think a lot of potential buyers fall into the trap of thinking that the 3102, since it more closely resembles the ubiquitous Bridgeport-style floor mill in form, is going to have greater capacity than a bench mill. On the other hand, the SX3 mill has the same form as bench mills of much less capacity, and thus it's size tends to be visually underestimated. I was quite surprised at how large the SX3 mill actually is once I got it in the shop.

I think it depends on how you think about capacity. You are talking about the work envelope, where the machines are fairly similar and in some ways the SX3 surpasses the 6x26. The main one is maximum height of the quill over the table, but that is easy to fix. There are dozens of plans out there for building a column extension, and it is a pretty easy milling or lathe project.

I was thinking about the types of operations that I could do on the machine. I build bicycles as a hobby and one of the most attractive things about the G3102 is that I can use it for mitering bicycle tubing with a hole saw. This is a task where rigidity matters a lot (I've done some on my SB9A, it can be borderline for this task) and the extra mass of the 6x26 is a big deal there. I don't think that the SX3 or any of the table top mills would do the job so well.

I'm curious why having such a large swing is important on a mill. What milling tools do you use that fit in an 18" swing, but not an 11" swing?

The 3102 has a range of 7 speeds from 240-2760 RPM, which are changed by lifting the belt cover, loosening the belt tension, shifting the belts on the pullies, re-tightening the belt tension, and lowering the cover, while the SX3 has a (more useful, IMHO) speed range from 100-1800 RPM, selectable in 10 RPM increments by the touch of a button. The motor can also be instantly reversed at any speed, and there is a digital tachometer included. Also, the SX3 has a tapping feature whereby the spindle can be reversed by simply pressing one of the buttons at the end of the 3 spindle feed handles.

Having owned a X2 mill and a 7x12 lathe I'm pretty familiar with the DC motors that give you infinite speeds quickly and easily. I think this is great on paper, but I didn't like it in concept because at low speeds you also get lower torque. With a motor and belt system you get higher torque at lower speeds. On my SB9A I had been dreaming of big DC motors and treadmill speed controllers until I got the thing home and realized that 12 finite speeds really worked pretty well.

As with any tools I think you need to consider how you'll be using it and what the limitations are that you are willing to accept. For my needs I think the G3102 (6x26) makes a lot more sense. Getting one used for little more than a SX3 new made it a trivial decision.

alex
 

MI_PLY

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Location
plymouth
Well I'd like to chime in here regarding the X3.

I too have one and have used it quite a bit. Overall I'm pleased with the performance considering it's ~340lbs. The 2 main weaknesses I've notices so far are the following:

1) Gear Train in the head. Before I even ran the machine I completly dissassembled the head replacing all the bearings and confirming proper lubrication everwhere. Also, I made sure to chamfer all burrs (especially around the quill lock) The main gears (Top most portion) make a huge amount of noise especially when taking heavy cuts. I plan to eventually replace with helical gears when time permits. I can say I really like the 2:1 reducer (not present on the newer X3. I've heard of people complaining about lack of low end power on the digital models. Some people completly remove all gears and jus tuse a VFD belt - which also seems like a decent option.

2) The Open Column (please see attached). Due to the head raising mechanism, the X3 has a completly open back (very weak torsionally). This is most noticable when plunge cutting or counterboring using an endmill. You can see the head swivel slowly back and fourth. In my spare time at work I rad some basic CAE to see effect of adding C/M's.
1st pic is base shape: max displacement is (relative) 1mm
2nd pic is completly box: max displacement is 0.05mm (huge improve - but impossible due to no way to use the original head movement system)
3rd pic is add slot to allow a modified head movement system: max displacement is 0.5mm.

I'm now left with correlating the deflection to performance gain - considering the cost to make the back plate and new side plates. Is it worth all the expense / effort??

Any way - still studying but wanted to point out what i feel is the main weakness of the X3.
 

Attachments

  • col1.jpg
    col1.jpg
    21.8 KB · Views: 691
  • col2.jpg
    col2.jpg
    16.6 KB · Views: 524
  • col3.jpg
    col3.jpg
    18.4 KB · Views: 506

flatfendershop

Aluminum
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Location
Utahhhh!
Hi All, since this thread is here I'll ask this question. I have a chance to purchase a full cnc setup on a small mill that has never been used, its few years old but never cut a chip. The deal includes the mill, small vise, arbor, chuck, face cutter, clamps, etc. See the attached link. Again, brand new, never used. I just don't know that I have a need for cnc, never thought I did until this opportunity came up.

I have a SB 10K that this would compliment. See the attached link for details. My price is $2200.

Has anyone used the micro-kinetics set up before? Are they any good?

http://www.microkinetics.com/express/

Thanks, Flatfender.
 

Alex Wetmore

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Location
Seattle, WA
Hi All, since this thread is here I'll ask this question. I have a chance to purchase a full cnc setup on a small mill that has never been used, its few years old but never cut a chip. The deal includes the mill, small vise, arbor, chuck, face cutter, clamps, etc. See the attached link. Again, brand new, never used. I just don't know that I have a need for cnc, never thought I did until this opportunity came up.

I have a SB 10K that this would compliment. See the attached link for details. My price is $2200.

At $2200 out of the box it seems like a really nice deal. It's hard to get too close to that in doing your own conversion, and this one is already done.

CNC vs manual really depends on the type of work that you are doing. I'd like to have a CNC setup for making more intricate parts that would take me a long time on a manual system. Manual seems nicer for quick and dirty work where programing the CNC would take longer than just making the thing yourself.

alex
 

SteveH8861

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Manual seems nicer for quick and dirty work where programing the CNC would take longer than just making the thing yourself.

Not really and that's a common misconception,
Once you are used to using a cnc'd mill, any "manual" type work is even faster and easier on the cnc machine.
There is no programing involved when you run the cnc'd mill "manually". You just use a gamepad, MPG or the MDI interface and machine away as usual but without spinning any handwheels.
Having a cnc mill in the home shop is a tremendous tool. The cost is now very affordable and opens up an entire new world of machining capabilities impossible to even consider on a manual mill.

Steve
 

Paula

Titanium
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Indiana, USA
I'm curious why having such a large swing is important on a mill. What milling tools do you use that fit in an 18" swing, but not an 11" swing?

I don't normally think of the swing (of a mill, drill press, or lathe) in terms of the largest size tool that can be accommodated, but more as one of the determinants of maximum workpiece size. It's why larger mills often have the head mounted on a ram which allows greater clearance between the spindle and column.

With a motor and belt system you get higher torque at lower speeds. On my SB9A I had been dreaming of big DC motors and treadmill speed controllers until I got the thing home and realized that 12 finite speeds really worked pretty well.

But keep in mind that the 3102 as a minimum speed of 240 RPM, while the 12-speed 9A goes down to 50 RPM thru the back gears. The 3102 is V-belt drive right to the spindle. The SX3 has a 2:1 ratio gearbelt drive to the spindle, and I've had no problems tapping holes as large as 3/8-16.

As with any tools I think you need to consider how you'll be using it and what the limitations are that you are willing to accept.

Amen to that.

Paula
 

Arnex

Plastic
Joined
Sep 14, 2021
Are they possible to get or buy the drawing on the spindle lock for sx3?
Leif from Sweden
 

jmm03

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
ventura,ca.usa
Leif, welcome to the forum, wish I could be of some help other than pointing out that this thread was last viewed in 2008... Jim
 

Paula

Titanium
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Location
Indiana, USA
Are they possible to get or buy the drawing on the spindle lock for sx3?
Leif from Sweden

Hi Leif,

If you let me know your email address (send via Private Message, if you want don't want to post it), I will send you the drawings for the SX3 spindle lock in the form of (6) PDF documents. Total size is around 230 KB. Anyone else is welcome also.

Paula
 

Batelier

Plastic
Joined
Jan 4, 2023
Hi Leif,

If you let me know your email address (send via Private Message, if you want don't want to post it), I will send you the drawings for the SX3 spindle lock in the form of (6) PDF documents. Total size is around 230 KB. Anyone else is welcome also.

Paula
Hello Paula,
If your invite still holds, please send the SX3 spindle lock plans to <[email protected]>.
Thanks for your attention,
Andre Dumont,
Levis QC Canada
 








 
Top