Mill to complement SB Lathe Capabilities?

Rusnok Head Adapability

Does anyone know if the Rusnok vertical head can be adapted to any horizontal mill?
Just spotted a Hardinge horizontal mill close to home within my budget and was wondering if it could be adapted.

flathead38 said:

Does anyone know if the Rusnok vertical head can be adapted to any horizontal mill?

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Easy. You make something that on one end looks like the end of a Bridgeport arm and on the other end looks like an overarm bracket:-)

Here's what one fellow did:



The adapter has the mounting bolt holes that match the Bridgeport head mounting, and a big collar on the other side with bolts to clamp it down to the overarm.

This is what I eventually plan to to with the Brainard.

Steve

I have a Rusnok on my Hardinge UM using a Rusnok OEM mounting adaptor.

I think the rusnok is probably a better choice for a horizontal conversion like that.
The M head gets pretty long underneath the mounting boss and I've found that
I a) run the hardinge horizontal with the knee as low as practical and b) I often
run out of clearance between the spindle and the workpiece anyway.

Jim

OK, I did it

You guys were killing me with the pictures, so I sold my RF31 and bought this yesterday. You got to quit showing me this stuff, my wife is going to kill me. (picture not taken in my shop, will drag it home tomorrow)

It appears that angelfire won't let you link to images, so if you want to check out what SHOULD have been the picture on my prior post, go to:

http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/shapeaholic/Rockwellmill.html

Steve

Paula, how did you make the (improved drawbar) mod. to your sx3 mill? I have a sx3 and would like to make the same change.
Thanks: Cliff(SC)

Clausing 8520

. . . . I have had a Rockwell vertical mill which was a little bigger and used r8 collets which I loved; however the Clausing is perfect for my needs. The mill is shown with a 4 inch Kurt vise. I got a 3 inch kurt vise with a swivel base and I think it is a better proportion. But . . . . I will have to keep vices. If 2 people can not move it . . . . I do not want it.

Wallpaperman said:

Paula, how did you make the (improved drawbar) mod. to your sx3 mill?

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Hi Cliff,

It's pretty simple. I made the shank from 3/4" hex 4140 steel (McMaster #6607K471), and the stem from 7/16-20 B7 alloy threaded rod (Mcmaster #92580A110). Though not hardened, these materials are quite tough, and seem to hold up well for occasional, hobby-type use. Also, when the business end of the threaded rod wears out, replacement is easy.

I didn't make a drawing, but here's a picture of the drawbar assembly (click for a larger view), along with the inexpensive wrench/hammer I use with it (available from Enco, MSC, etc.):



The threaded rod is simply Loc-Tited into a blind 7/16-20 tapped hole in the shank. Adjust the length of the threaded rod to suit. For reference, mine is exactly 10-19/32" long from the end to the thrust washer face. I made mine a bit longer than standard, to get more thread engagement for slower wear of the threads. Be sure to check the length with all your R8 accessories to make sure the threads don't bottom out. The 3/4" hex shank is about 3-5/8" long overall, including a turned pilot to fit the inside of the mill's spindle.

Since I already had one, I added an oilite washer (press fit) to the shank, to help prevent galling where the shank bears against the top of the spindle. I also recommend applying an extreme pressure lubricant, such as Anti-Seize, to the lower end of the threaded rod, as well as the thrust surface at the top of the spindle. Here's a view of the drawbar in place, with the "guard" removed:



I decided to take the idea a step further, and added a spindle-lock to the mill as well. This eliminates the need for fumbling around with that goofy spanner wrench on the face of the spindle. With this setup, when I want to change tools, I just grab the wrench/hammer thingie, and go to it.

The spindle lock consists of a spring-returned lever, pivoting on a shoulder bolt, with a small "tooth" that engages a corresponding groove in the spindle pulley. Pulling forward on the lever engages the tooth, locking the spindle while the drawbar is loosened or tightened. When released, the lever returns to the disengaged position. Here's a 3D CAD view of the installed spindle lock mechanism:



And here is a view inside the belt cover, showing the actual assembled parts:



I do have drawings for the spindle lock, in case you're interested in making one for yourself.

Paula

Paula,
I am very interested in the drawings. This is exactly what I'm looking for, I hate the allen wrench set up with a passion & that (goofy spanner wrench) [email protected]


Thanks: Cliff(SC)

Hi There,

I also will put a vote in for the Millrite. Mine is a 1979 model (with the Powermatic badge)
and has the R8 spindle taper. In my case, I have the optional geared down motor (280 rpm)
which gives the lowest spindle speed of 65 rpm.






Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Wallpaperman said:

I am very interested in the drawings. This is exactly what I'm looking for...

Click to expand...

Excellent! I will try and get some PDF's of the drawings put together this weekend, and send them your way.

Paula

Paula, I have AutoCad2005 if that helps you.

Cliff(SC)

Webb is that the solid gold motor housing option, with the pure silver wiring inside?



Jim

I faced this question when I bought my 9" SBs. I first went with a Burkem Horizontal Mill. I felt it matched the 9" in the following ways:

- Rugged as all heck, compable of ripping off a big chip or doing some delicate work;
- Easy to move in parts but once reassembled correctly, a real tool;
- Overall size and capabilites in line with the 9" SB
- MT3 in comon with the SB9

I recently bought a Clausing small knee mill. It feels like a real bridgeport but is mounted on a knee height stand and is sorta a toy without letting on to the fact. The MT 2 quill does not please everyone.

- Easy to move in parts with an engine lift;
- Solid serious machine, though in my mind a little light in the service loafers compared to a 9" SB, more a comparable machine on size and space taken up than other stuff.
- A delight to use looks good in the same room as the 9", which I wouldn't say is the case with a lot of modern desk top mills.

"Though it may be difficult for some to comprehend, not everyone is blessed with a cadre of friends/relatives with strong backs, willing hearts, large trucks with low-boy trailers, flat-bed trucks, fork lifts, ramps, gantries, hoists, bobcats, front-end loaders, etc., who are ready at the drop of a hat for the next big machinery-moving challenge."

The combination of danger and misery that one may be impossing on people whose only connection is their strong backs, really bothered me, and I decided not to move anything until I could do it myself, for the most part. What surprised me is how little discusion moving gets (though this place was a comparative goldmine). I solved my problem by buying a engine lift (duh) and a scissor table. I have bought quite a few tools since. Often from people who moved comparatively wacking things into their basements, and whose smaller cast-offs I was taking.

It is truly amazing what people have "down there". I asked one completly non-bofo couple how they had got all that heavy iron into the basement. He pointed to a tiny winch suspended from the ceiling over the skimpy stairs to the basement: "didn't you seem my winch?". Unbelieveable this couple could have pounded through the floor under their own weight, let alone moving around a full size mill and lathe, 4 of them... I think it is like anything else. Over time people gain experience and courage, step by step.

I'm going to vote for mills in the following order;

1) Bridgeport (or equivalent full size)
2) Millrite/Burke
3) Rockwell
4) Clausing 8520/8530
5) Square Column Asian

I personally chose the Rockwell because of R8 tooling and it is the largest size that I want to transport and move around on my own with an engine hoist.

Rusnok on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220299397149

No connection - thought followers of the thread might be interested.

I don't have the diversity of experience with different mills of some here, I've run a full size BP, and bought a little Sheldon to keep my 13 company. I'm kind of in the same, but also opposite boat as Shad, mine has a cobbled together drive for the horiz. spindle as the base evidently got whacked somewhere in the past. It has lot #13 stamped all over it, go figure.

I picked up a Porter Cable vert. head that's driven off the horiz. spindle, and I just haven't gotten around to picking up the right belt. I tried it with one that would also run the table feed, but it slipped too much due to lack of wrap. Haven't bothered to get another, the horizontal config is doing fine so far.

The mill came with part of the belt table feed mechanism, I totally lucked out and found an original gear box for it. Looks like Shad's was removed and blanked off. (gearbox came painted puke green, so I don't think it's off *your* machine Shad..)

To appease Jim R, the Porter Cable is quill-less as well . At 75 bux v. the 550 some one is asking for that rusnok head.....

I've drilled and used end mills in collets in the horiz. spindle, works fine, chips tend to fall out better, but you have to crane your neck a bit and/or rely on the dials if you're in a hole. I have yet to have to tram the horiz. spindle in. The BP I used would go out of tram if you sneezed on it.

I hated the "multipass" finish on parts, so I finally ponied up and bought a 4" wide high helix cutter. Man, thow that thing on there, flip on the feed, watch the chips fly, better than sex.

Add to this horizontals tend to go for alot less money than verticals, well, the choice is obvious. I watched a pristine Sheldon on the other coast go for less than 300 on Ebay recently.

Grizzly G3102

I had a Sieg X2 (Grizzly/Micromark/etc mini-mill). It is a better complement for the 7x12 Chinese lathes than the Southbend. I found it to be a very useful machine to learn on, and capable of small operations, but I also felt that I hit it's limits pretty quickly. It has the advantage of being easy to transport, a big plus if you rent your shop space and move often.

I just bought a used Grizzly G3102. This is about the same size as a Clausing 8250 and fits pretty easily into my basement workshop with low ceilings. The mill is 5' 6" tall, and you need just a little more clearance to open the top to adjust the belts. The table is 6x26". It weighs 800lbs and has a knee so it is capable of larger operations than the X3 and Super X3 mills.

To get it into my basement we disassembled the mill into major components: body, head, knee, table, stand. The heaviest of these was the body which I'd estimate at roughly 300lbs. There are 4 stairs to get down into my basement from the back yard, and 3 of us were able to lower the body one stair at a time and get it onto a dolly. To reassemble the mill we used an engine hoist. First we put the head onto the body, then we lifted that whole assembly and put it onto the stand (which I have on a mobile base).

I haven't had much of a chance to use it yet, but I have done some test cuts. It is capable of much larger cuts than my mini-mill was and the whole thing feels much more sturdy. I think it is a good complement to my South Bend 9A.

These mills cost $2200 new today (they used to be $1800). Harbor Freight sells a version for $1600 new, but it doesn't have the stand and I don't know if the knee has as much range. I bought one used (very lightly used, <10 hours of operation) for about $1600.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/g3102

I think it is a much more capable machine than the X3 series mills for not a whole lot more money.

alex

Alex Wetmore said:

I think it is a much more capable machine than the X3 series mills for not a whole lot more money.

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Wow, Alex... I'm glad you found a mill you're happy with, but in comparing the 3102 with the SX3, I arrived at the exact opposite conclusion. The 3102 has not much more capability (in some cases, much less) for a WHOLE LOT more money (nearly a thousand dollars more!)

Before deciding to purchase the G0619 (Seig SX3) mill, I did consider the 3102, but it fell short in so many important respects that there was no way I could justify the huge difference in price. I think a lot of potential buyers fall into the trap of thinking that the 3102, since it more closely resembles the ubiquitous Bridgeport-style floor mill in form, is going to have greater capacity than a bench mill. On the other hand, the SX3 mill has the same form as bench mills of much less capacity, and thus it's size tends to be visually underestimated. I was quite surprised at how large the SX3 mill actually is once I got it in the shop.

Some points I considered when choosing between the G3102 and SX3 mills:

• The SX3 has a much larger swing than the 3102: 18" vs. 11" (Spindle to column: 9" vs. 5.5")
• The SX3 has a more clearance beneath the spindle than the 3102: 14.75" versus 12.25" (though mine actually measures 15.125")
• Though the SX3 has a shorter table than the 3102 (by some 4.375"), it is actually a bit wider than the 3102.
• The SX3 has slightly more longitudinal travel than the 3102 (15.875" versus 15.625"), and only .25" less cross travel.
• The 3102 has greater spindle travel than the SX3, but only by .25".
• The 3102 has a range of 7 speeds from 240-2760 RPM, which are changed by lifting the belt cover, loosening the belt tension, shifting the belts on the pullies, re-tightening the belt tension, and lowering the cover, while the SX3 has a (more useful, IMHO) speed range from 100-1800 RPM, selectable in 10 RPM increments by the touch of a button. The motor can also be instantly reversed at any speed, and there is a digital tachometer included. Also, the SX3 has a tapping feature whereby the spindle can be reversed by simply pressing one of the buttons at the end of the 3 spindle feed handles.

I also really like the built-in digital readout for the quill. I use this all the time for setting my depth of cut.

I'm not trying to pick apart your decision here, Alex. It's great that you have a mill that you like, but I don't see any way that the 3102 represents a better value than the SX3. If it did, I probably would have bought one.

Paula