Need help with my new 10EE

Cal Haines · Oct 17, 2022

Interesting! On later machines, like Grant's round-dial, the drain that leads to the headstock center reservoir is on the other side (the bearing side) of the front bearing retainer. The tailstock side is drained by a small, angled hole at 6 O'clock that lets excess oil from the labyrinth seal run down the right (tailstock-facing) side of the headstock and into the chip pan.

grounding · Oct 31, 2022

Looking for these (2) bearing for the screw shaft in the gearbox. Any help finding would be greatly appreciated.

N20303
N20205

grounding · Nov 3, 2022

Guys, my tumbler gear and 1 of the gears in the cone are in rough shape and I'm going to either make or buy replacements. Anyone have parts from a round dial gearbox they'd like to sell, or know the pressure angle of said gears?

grounding · Nov 3, 2022

Also, I can't find the same bearings with the shoulder, for the lead screw shaft. Do any of you have an opinion on replacing these with bearings that don't have the shoulder?

Cal Haines · Nov 3, 2022

Those gears should be 16 DP. AFIK, Monarch used 14.5 degree pressure angle gears.

Before trying to make them, you might want to see if Boston Gear, McMaster, etc., have gears that could be machined to fit.

grounding · Nov 3, 2022

Cal Haines said:
Those gears should be 16 DP. AFIK, Monarch used 14.5 degree pressure angle gears.

Before trying to make them, you might want to see if Boston Gear, McMaster, etc., have gears that could be machined to fit.

Thanks Cal. Gonna try and find them first. Worst case, make them. You agree they need to be replaced?

Cal Haines · Nov 3, 2022

You could probably clean up the tumbler gear and continue to use it, but the cone gear has a couple of teeth that are in bad shape. It looks like some idiot tried to force it into gear with the spindle turning. Ideally, both gears should be replaced. What thread pitches does the bad cone gear correspond to? How many teeth on the cone gear?

It's worth a call to Monarch to see if they have any old stock gears.

grounding · Nov 4, 2022

Cal Haines said:
You could probably clean up the tumbler gear and continue to use it, but the cone gear has a couple of teeth that are in bad shape. It looks like some idiot tried to force it into gear with the spindle turning. Ideally, both gears should be replaced. What thread pitches does the bad cone gear correspond to? How many teeth on the cone gear?

It's worth a call to Monarch to see if they have any old stock gears.

16DP. I believe the tumbler is 37 tooth and the other is 34, but I'll confirm when I get home.

Cal Haines · Nov 4, 2022

What I was asking about is what thread pitches on the gearbox dial does that cone gear correspond to.

grounding · Nov 4, 2022

Cal Haines said:
What I was asking about is what thread pitches on the gearbox dial does that cone gear correspond to.

Oh got it. I’ll check in a bit

CarbideTip · Nov 4, 2022

I might be able to help with those two gears from the spare gearbox I have.
See this post:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/cva-toolroom-lathe-feed-gearbox.378671/post-3721985

These are CVA gears, so we'd need to check dimensions match the Monarch ones.
A Round dial 10EE will have the same gear ratios / tooth numbers as the early CVA's.
I can't remember whether I took the tumbler gear out but I'm pretty sure I've got it.

PM me if you're interested.

grounding · Nov 4, 2022

Cal Haines said:
What I was asking about is what thread pitches on the gearbox dial does that cone gear correspond to.

6th from the left.

Cal Haines · Nov 4, 2022

grounding said:
6th from the left.
View attachment 378747

That would be the gear that's selected for 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 TPI when threading and 0.0014, 0.0028 and 0.0055 inch per rev when feeding. That's a commonly used pitch, so it really needs to be replaced. If it were the gear on either side, you could TIG up and file/grind down the bad teeth and get by, avoiding using those feeds.

37 teeth for the tumbler gear checks, but the manual shows 32 teeth for that cone gear.

grounding · Nov 5, 2022

Cal Haines said:
That would be the gear that's selected for 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 TPI when threading and 0.0014, 0.0028 and 0.0055 inch per rev when feeding. That's a commonly used pitch, so it really needs to be replaced. If it were the gear on either side, you could TIG up and file/grind down the bad teeth and get by, avoiding using those feeds.

37 teeth for the tumbler gear checks, but the manual shows 32 teeth for that cone gear.

It’s in deed 32. I think Martin is going to help me out with replacement gears.

grounding · Nov 7, 2022

Guys, looking to find replacements for the gearbox lead screw shaft (N20303 & N20205). Not having any luck finding replacements that have the shoulder, so I'm replacing with bearings without the shoulder. My question is, do you think it'll be fine to use completely sealed radial ball bearings, or are angular contact open bearings needed?

Cal Haines · Nov 7, 2022

What bearings (by number) are you considering as replacements?

The topic of bearing seals is a complicated one. You can use PM's built-in search, or try this search string in your favorite search engine, to see what's been discussed here on PM:

site:https://www.practicalmachinist.com sealed or open bearings

Most major bearing manufactures have bearing design/selection handbooks that may be helpful. For example:

https://www.timken.com/resources/timken-engineering-manual/

grounding · Nov 7, 2022

Cal Haines said:
What bearings (by number) are you considering as replacements?

The topic of bearing seals is a complicated one. You can use PM's built-in search, or try this search string in your favorite search engine, to see what's been discussed here on PM:

site:https://www.practicalmachinist.com sealed or open bearings
Most major bearing manufactures have bearing design/selection handbooks that may be helpful. For example:

https://www.timken.com/resources/timken-engineering-manual/

(N20303 & N20205).

Cal Haines · Nov 7, 2022

grounding said:
(N20303 & N20205).

Those are New Departure bearing numbers and you said that they're not available.

For anyone else playing along, these are angular-contact bearings. The specs (from the 1943 ND manual, pg 44) are:

20303: ID 17mm, OD 47mm, W 14mm; 10 5/16" balls; 2570 lbs radial @ 50 RPM, 1210 lbs @1000 RPM
20205: ID 25mm, OD 52mm, W 15mm; 12 9/32" balls; 2310 lbs radial @ 50 RPM, 1090 lbs @1000 RPM

I don't think that I would replace them with a non-flanged bearing. The leadscrew has longitudinal forces on it, which is probably why they used flanged, angular-contact bearings here, but unflanged, radial bearings on the cone and clutch shafts. Maybe you can find a flanged or C-clip angular-contact bearing that can be adapted by sleeving either the ID or OD?

(on edit: added radial load specs from page 48)

beckerkumm · Nov 7, 2022

Cal, do you know what angle the bearings are ? I would guess lower rather than higher but that is a complete guess. Dave

grounding · Nov 8, 2022

Cal Haines said:
Those are New Departure bearing numbers and you said that they're not available.

For anyone else playing along, these are angular-contact bearings. The specs (from the 1943 ND manual, pg 44) are:

20303: ID 17mm, OD 47mm, W 14mm; 10 5/16" balls

20205: ID 25mm, OD 52mm, W 15mm; 12 9/32" balls

I don't think that I would replace them with a non-flanged bearing. The leadscrew has longitudinal forces on it, which is probably why they used flanged, angular-contact bearings here, but unflanged, radial bearings on the cone and clutch shafts. Maybe you can find a flanged or C-clip angular-contact bearing that can be adapted by sleeving either the ID or OD?

Crap sorry Cal, I misunderstood your question.

Radial ball bearing numbers are
NTN-6205LLUC3/EM
NTN-6303LLUC3/EM

Angular contact open bearing numbers are
NTN-7205BG
NTN-7303BG

Need help with my new 10EE

Diamond

Aluminum

Attachments

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Similar threads