K&T 2D Rotary 11-5256 -- my new toy.

Is that what they mean in the manual that, "serious damage to gear boxes Nos. 51 and 72 may result from running them in the wrong direction"? I had always wondered why they said that until finding this problem.

Right before that they make the assumption that if you get the spindle turning in the correct direction that all the other motors will be correct also. They weren't looking further down the road when they wrote that!

I feel better about the whole thing now because, intuitively, pushing the feed handle the direction I had to was opposite that of my 2HL and I just wrote it off as a model difference. That should have caused me to look further.

2D Which Accepts R8 Tooling..

My 2D was converted to accept R8 collets long before I got it.. I don't know who did it but It has worked ok for many years.. I put a 3/8" R8 collet in the spindle and tightened it with a wrench .. Notice how far it protrudes from the spindle....I wonder if all they did was to grind clearance for the body of the collet.. The spindle has a key in it which engages the R8 collet and tool holders....Ramsay 1

The big end of a B-3 is 0.800. The minor diameter or an R-8 is 0.950. At the point your collet protrudes it is about 1.200, so they must have hogged quite a bit out of it. I looked at this on mine awhile back and wondered how yours was done without the collet sticking out and now I know!

I'm sure some collet designer could tell us why that's not ideal but if it's been working for you, you can't argue with that.

Are Morse taper collets any easier to source? I haven't done any measuring but it may not require as radical an approach to adapt that. The one issue I did encounter is they all seem to be 1/2" drawbars whereas 2D's are 7/16" I've not seen the specs on an R-8 taper but when turning down the R-8 holder that I did, it looked to be the same angle, which on a B-3 is 9-degrees, 8-minutes.

W_Higgins said:

The big end of a B-3 is 0.800. The minor diameter or an R-8 is 0.950. At the point your collet protrudes it is about 1.200, so they must have hogged quite a bit out of it. I looked at this on mine awhile back and wondered how yours was done without the collet sticking out and now I know!

I'm sure some collet designer could tell us why that's not ideal but if it's been working for you, you can't argue with that.

Are Morse taper collets any easier to source? I haven't done any measuring but it may not require as radical an approach to adapt that. The one issue I did encounter is they all seem to be 1/2" drawbars whereas 2D's are 7/16" I've not seen the specs on an R-8 taper but when turning down the R-8 holder that I did, it looked to be the same angle, which on a B-3 is 9-degrees, 8-minutes.

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It has worked well with everything I have used in the spindle.. It is always best though with R8 to use an endmill holder instead of a collet when doing heavy milling... I think we have all had experience with an end mill pulling into the work from an R8 collet... It is never good...The more it slips the deeper it goes and the more it slips...

On the Morse taper collets, I have a Midgetmill and an M head Bridgeport both using Morse taper #2 collets and they hold end mills like a bear.. They do not slip that is for sure but the largest shank they can hold is 1/2" in MT2.. Another thing to note is that the draw bar is arranged to expel the collet when it is turned backwards.. This is a great feature as no hammering is needed that can throw things out of alignment....AS tight as those little collets hold, I would hate to have to drive one out with a hammer....Ramsay 1

I'm a little behind and out of order with my posts. To tide me over while I hunt for some collets, I experimented with cutting down the R-8 shank on an ER-40 collet holder to a B-3 shank. The cutter is further away from the spindle than I would like, but otherwise I think it worked out well and will do for the time being so long as I go easy on it. ER-32 may have been a more appropriate choice, but I already had another ER-40 holder with a nice set of collets and a wrench.

This particular unit is from Shars. It was cheap enough that if the experiment went wrong it wasn't the end of the world. One of the Morse taper units might have been easier to work with but R-8's are the only ones I could find with a 7/16" drawbar the same as the 2D is equipped. It was thru-drilled enough that it was possible to extend the threads deeper inside the shank. I would have preferred one not tapped for a stop screw as you have to be careful about where the wall gets thin at the bottom but all the ones I could find on the market came so equipped.

I goofed around with a piece of MDF to make sure everything is functioning well before putting any real loads to it and I can't complain about any of it. With this, I can more easily make the pipe adapter plate to wash out the sump since the 2D abolishes the need for giant Forstner bits!

2D under power

The 2D is quite versatile as may be seen here..Notice the R8 end mill holder in the spindle...:

I haven't been slacking on anything but my updates. This week I flushed out the sump. This should have been done while outside and I just didn't think about it, so rather than move the beast again I opted to make an adapter so I could hook 2" pipe to the coolant clean out on the base and run it out the door. It would have been ideal to use the steam cleaner on it but it's not running right now, so I did the best I could scraping and flushing with cold water. It got out more than a 1/2 gallon of sludge. The contours of the sump floor are full of pockets and obstructions. Hopefully this had made enough room for things to settle out and the main floor where the oil flows is pretty clean now. After reaching inside with a lot of blue paper towels and absorbing everything I could, I ran my heat gun in the base for about six hours and as best I can tell it is dry. So, on to cleaning the pumps, working over the coolant and air check valve, and I should probably get a new hose made for the movable coolant pipe as this one is rather stiff.

I can relate... My 2d was full of some kind of rusty dirt and dust no doubt from running soluble.. As an added bonus of the soluble, my coolant pump was totally seized..I was able to save it though so 20 years later the LIGHT BODIED CUTTING OIL still flows nicely....The only maintenance needed to the coolant sump is to occasionally add oil to it.. Cheers! Ramsay 1

When I pulled the pumps the segregated well for the air pump had quite a bit of oil in it. I figured that over a long period of time the Coolant and Air Check Valve was allowing oil to drain back down the air line and it accumulated. When I evacuated it, it turned out to be as much water as oil. That's odd because I also found water in the sump. When I cleaned out the well I found this defect in the casting and the top of the hole happened to be right at the top of the "waterline" of stuff that accumulated inside. I can't see light through it but I have to figure it's at least a slow leak from the sump. As best as can be done with dirty cast iron, I flushed it hard with lacquer thinner and blew it out several times and then packed the holes with Devcon in a Monoject syringe until it oozed out like a Play Doh machine. Can't hurt and I don't know anything better to do. Time will tell.

The pumps are both up and running. It was good to find that the water in the air pump well hadn't damaged the internals. A quick cleanup was all it needed. The only issue with the coolant pump was the pickup screen was clogged. The Coolant and Air Check Valve was working properly, so back on with the old hose for now and everything works as it should. It's interesting that the air pump turns clockwise and the coolant pump counterclockwise. Another thing I had to sort through as the manual only states that when the spindle is turning clockwise when switched to "right" everything else will turn the correct way, too.... but not if somebody has messed with it!

So, I'd still like to get a hose, black oxide the sliding coolant tube, and I either need to find or make the Support Ring that attaches to the Quill Housing. I tried the air first and can see where it would be useful to blow away chips such as when running a small carbide cutter. The oil is nice and easy to regulate. The manual says you can combine the two to create a mist, but I found that to be a bit messy. The only thing I don't like is once you've run oil through the line, if you want to switch back to air and not make a mess, it takes a long time to clear the line.

Everything is now operational. I have a new switch coming for the table motor as sometime in its past the toggle was snapped off. Also, it still needs belts, the topside cleaned up, and the speed indicator with pulley adjustment lock reinstalled. It's still not apparent to me why that was removed and I hope there's not another surprise lurking there.

Looks like you are making progress.. Yes, you never know what some trunk monkey has done to the wiring before you got it.. You have to go through the whole thing and make sure EVERY motor is wired for the correct rotation....My air pump has a Trico oiler on it that keeps the inner part lubricated....Keep oil in the coolant sump and you and your machine will remain very happy for a long time....I changed the belts on my machine many years ago and they are still in good shape though I don't use it often anymore....Who knows why the speed indicator was taken off, but then again, you never know who was monkeying around with the machine in the past.. Just be thankful some idiot didn't throw the parts in the trash because they didn't know what they go to.. Cheers; Ramsay 1

My air pump has two oilers and one is incomplete. The incomplete one has a capillary tube that runs to the bottom of the unit. Does yours have the same? The bigger oiler is a Gits unit (a company that was still in business selling old style oilers until recent years). If you can describe the other oiler or it has a part number on it, perhaps I can find a suitable replacement. Somebody had screwed a plastic water bottle cap on top of it.

Note: I still see a site for Gits but it lists its manufacturing operation in China. Perhaps somebody bought the name.

Edit to add: After a quick search, it looks like the base of a Lunkenheimer drip oiler.

Mine has the same kind of plastic oiler with a wick in it.. I think it is a Trico but I can't be sure.. Book says Gils Oiler No, 3503 A. I will take a pic of it when I get a chance...Cheers; Ramsay 1 .

The book calls out that Gits oiler but doesn't show the second oiler that I have remains of in my pump base. I wonder if it's a difference between the newer and older machines like ours.

Looks like it’s coming along really well. I’ll be replacing my toggle switch on my 2D with a push button sometime in the future. I hardly ever wear a hat but one day I did and now my pinkie finger is crooked on the end. I was locking the spindle and the rim of the hat hit the on/off/reverse toggle switch. The spindle started turning and jammed my finger. I suppose I’m lucky it didn’t get tore off. I bet I’ve locked that spindle no less than 300x over the last 4yrs and never had an issue..... until the hat.

Dang, I never would have considered that. A few years ago I was wearing my favorite shop apron that I've had forever and it has a pocket on the left-front waist high. While running the lathe the carriage handwheel came around, hooked the top of the pocket, and yanked me down. Nothing bad came of it but it certainly got my attention. As long as I've had it, and as many different lathes as I've run, and it took that long to happen -- I've either been really lucky or it was a freak thing. Aside from not wearing it (or switching to aprons with no pocket), perhaps the answer is a heavy flap over the pocket.

W_Higgins said:

The book calls out that Gits oiler but doesn't show the second oiler that I have remains of in my pump base. I wonder if it's a difference between the newer and older machines like ours.

Click to expand...

Here is a pic of mine but my machine is probably much older than yours.. Ramsay 1

ramsay1 said:

Here is a pic of mine but my machine is probably much older than yours.. Ramsay 1

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That is a different animal. I remember you're earlier than early -- is yours the 1st generation one with the whole different style of column?

I think mine is a '42 model if I remember correctly.. Seems like everything I have is old including me lol... I sure wish my 2d had the knee lift motor.. It is a bear to raise the knee no matter how well oiled everything is... I was told by and old K&T employee that the knee lift by hand was one of the worst gripes there was about the machine.. Cheers; Ramsay 1

Mine is February of '46, so they're not terribly far apart.

Looking closer, I'll bet the second oiler on my pump was the same as the existing Gits Wick Feed Oiler (and actually I see now that the parts list says "Qty. 2" but the drawing only shows one). The boss, thread, and application is the same. The remains of the Lunkenheimer was probably a replacement that was subsequently damaged, itself. I'll keep an eye on eBay and I'm sure eventually a match will show up.

The knee is a bear though mine is a lot better now that it's cleaned up. Some kind of retrofit rapid attached to it would be a desirable feature. You'd have to find just the right spring, but I wonder if you could drop a big spring over the knee elevating screw housing to take just enough load off to make cranking easier but not so much that it wouldn't still go all the way down under its own weight....