K&T 2D Rotary 11-5256 -- my new toy.

ramsay1 · May 16, 2019

PaulO_UK said:
Congratulations on joining the club. I bought mine about 18 months ago. I can’t see me ever selling it.

An old timer with Kearney and Trecker told me years ago that just about every tool and die shop had at least one 2d and none wanted to give them up..Ramsay 1

m-lud · May 16, 2019

Here is a 1955 sales promotion film about your mill YouTube Enjoy

ramsay1 · May 16, 2019

mllud22 said:
Here is a 1955 sales promotion film about your mill YouTube Enjoy

I got that from an old K&T employee many years ago.. Thanks to Ed for putting on Youtube for me for all to enjoy! Ramsay 1

W_Higgins · May 16, 2019

It's a great film and I have been soaking up all I can find -- revisiting much of what I've studied in the past as I've gone through hunting cycles and glad to see so much new information added since then.

W_Higgins · May 16, 2019

Clean-up is going well. The dried varnish, that must be dried oil film, did a good job of protecting all the bare surfaces. There is still a ways to go, but what it is revealing underneath is nice. The quill is giving me trouble in that it is very stiff going down and the handle just slips going the other way and the quill won't go up. I'm attributing that to a the quill being gummed-up as I've found this same varnish between other close tolerance parts. I'm going to keep flushing it and working in a "do no harm" kind of way and hope for the best. Other than that, no great surprises, wear seems very minimal, and I don't think it has an extraordinary amount of hours on it. Still hunting for a transformer, but I still have plenty to do before firing it up and a broken oil gauge lens on the rotary gearbox before it will hold oil again. Just nuisance things like that, but all great fun.

(Once again, sorry for the rotation. Any way to fix that?)

m-lud · May 16, 2019

ramsay1 said:
I got that from an old K&T employee many years ago.. Thanks to Ed for putting on Youtube for me for all to enjoy! Ramsay 1

Well it's good that he passed it on to you. If he had passed away with it stored away somewhere it may have ended up in the dumpster. The acoustic's are poor in the first part but for the age of that type of film its not bad. It's digital now.

ramsay1 · May 16, 2019

mllud22 said:
Well it's good that he passed it on to you. If he had passed away with it stored away somewhere it may have ended up in the dumpster. The acoustic's are poor in the first part but for the age of that type of film its not bad. It's digital now.

Precisely why I wanted it on Youtube.. When I pass away it will wind up in a dumpster and I am now 66.. This way I can leave something behind.. Cheers; Ramsay 1

m-lud · May 17, 2019

Here is a previous thread where Paulo-UK talks about his solution to making a tool holder mod. for his 2D mill. Read post #18. It may be easier for you to do something like he has done and may give you more versatility in the long run. K&T 2D Collet Holder Removal? Edit Once you clean off that old dried film the surface is more likely to flash rust if in a shop that isn't temperature controlled. Condensation can occur. Keep it oiled or buy a product like Fluid Film or a similar rust inhibitor product

Post #6 Kearney & Trecker Taper Tooling Thanks Paulo

W_Higgins · May 17, 2019

mllud22 said:
Here is a previous thread where Paulo-UK talks about his solution to making a tool holder mod. for his 2D mill. Read post #18. It may be easier for you to do something like he has done and may give you more versatility in the long run. K&T 2D Collet Holder Removal? Edit Once you clean off that old dried film the surface is more likely to flash rust if in a shop that isn't temperature controlled. Condensation can occur. Keep it oiled or buy a product like Fluid Film or a similar rust inhibitor product

Post #6 Kearney & Trecker Taper Tooling Thanks Paulo

Thanks for passing along the tooling tip. My machine is the earlier style that uses the tiny B-3 Bridgeport collets and doesn't have the roomy accommodations like the later spindle shown there.

My shop is heated and condensation is not a problem, but Fluid Film is kept handy for bare surfaces on the other the machines that aren't naturally oily. Wonderful stuff.

Servicar rider · May 20, 2019

If you don't want to go the transformer route, it's not that hard to rewire the motors for 220 volt. I have done two of these. The hardest part is the spindle motor. There are two set screws on the bottom of the motor pulley and it comes off, then under that are four screws that hold the motor. The spindle motor shaft is threaded for an eyebolt so you can hook a strap to it and remove the four mounting screws and lower the motor down through the column. You may find the rubber electrical cords to the motor to be rotten, mine were, the rubber insulation just crumbled.I had to replace the heaters, otherwise it was simple. The other motors were just a quick rewire of the motor leads.

Ray Behner · May 20, 2019

Hi Walter,
Sure hope you still have that universal head I sold you. We'll need a demo when she's up and running.

W_Higgins · May 21, 2019

Servicar rider said:
If you don't want to go the transformer route, it's not that hard to rewire the motors for 220 volt. I have done two of these. The hardest part is the spindle motor. There are two set screws on the bottom of the motor pulley and it comes off, then under that are four screws that hold the motor. The spindle motor shaft is threaded for an eyebolt so you can hook a strap to it and remove the four mounting screws and lower the motor down through the column. You may find the rubber electrical cords to the motor to be rotten, mine were, the rubber insulation just crumbled.I had to replace the heaters, otherwise it was simple. The other motors were just a quick rewire of the motor leads.

Swapping the voltage on the motors isn't an issue for me and I was considering pulling the spindle motor and having it freshened up for good measure before running it, anyway.

What I'm fuzzy on is what is involved in changing the heaters, are they available, and do I only need to do it for the spindle motor or for all of them? Will the contactors work or will I need to add a control voltage transformer like I had to do on my Series 60 Monarch when converting it from 440v to 220v? As I recall that was a matter of replacing coils that were not easily obtainable.

I'm fortunate that I don't have any rotten rubber cords. All the motors on my machine are connected with flexible metal conduit with stranded wire inside and all that I've found so far is in good shape.

W_Higgins · May 21, 2019

Ray Behner said:
Hi Walter,
Sure hope you still have that universal head I sold you. We'll need a demo when she's up and running.

I've already talked with Ray about this. His memory is better than mine. I had forgotten all about that head and after turning the place upside down I went through my emails and realized that in a moment of being too practical I sold it about eight years ago. The crystal ball must have been a bit cloudy that day. However, these things have a way of coming around when the time is right and the guy that got it has enjoyed it and been able to put it to good use all these years and I'm happy for that.

If anyone out there has any accessories taking up space on their shelf, please don't hesitate to write.

Servicar rider · May 22, 2019

I changed the heaters for each motor when I did mine. If I remember right they were made by arrow-hart and I was able to find the ones I needed on eBay? Fairly cheap too. Arrow-hart is long gone, but the parts were still around?

Servicar rider · May 22, 2019

I did not have to do anything with the contactors, the coil voltage did not change so the contactors were fine.

W_Higgins · May 26, 2019

Two great things have happened since my last post. After digging into it, it seems the machine is already 220v. The 440v label on the cabinet door is either from a previous life or a mischievous maintenance man's prank that is still paying dividends. As I started going through things it seemed the motors were already configured for 220v and as Jeff mentioned above, the contactors were labeled for 110v. I put power to it and everything came to life. I can't find my spindle tach but it looks to be spinning the speed it is set to and I timed the table feed with a stopwatch and everything is as it should be.

Second, I finally mustered up the courage to dig into the quill feed gearbox. In the coming days I will make a separate detailed post with photos outlining the steps of the repair so it's out there easy to find for future 2D owners. Nothing was broken. It was also the result of either a mischievous or incompetent maintenance man and may account for the apparent low hours on the machine since somebody dug into it no telling how many decades ago and left it with a non-functioning quill.

It is getting cleaner by the day and is on its way to running like a Swiss watch. Time to pursue the set of collets that were separated from it at the auction.

Bowtie_Finn · May 30, 2019

Congratulations !!!

These are the best machines, bought mine a year ago - it is a marvel of engineering

Good luck on finding those B3 collets, they don't come up all that often - I bought a Bridgeport cherrying head for 250$, just because it came with a full set of B3's lol

W_Higgins · May 31, 2019

Bowtie_Finn said:
Congratulations !!!

These are the best machines, bought mine a year ago - it is a marvel of engineering

Good luck on finding those B3 collets, they don't come up all that often - I bought a Bridgeport cherrying head for 250$, just because it came with a full set of B3's lol

Thanks. Put me on to a deal like that and I promise to be your friend forever!

I've been chipping away at some other things and have something in the works to make an ER tool holder so I can at least get by for the time being.

Also, the post on the quill box is still coming. Since the posting of inline images seems to have changed from the last time I've done it, and I don't have the photo hosting account that I used to, I'm trying to get my head wrapped around how to make a nice presentation. If images are posted inline that are stored elsewhere, is there even an option for having them show up full size in the thread anymore? I've been playing with it and all I can put up is a thumbnail that has to be enlarged.

W_Higgins · May 31, 2019

I make little bits of progress as time permits. The oil level indicator lens for the rotary gearbox was shattered and the paint on the faceplate damaged. It's not instrument grade, but it's touched up enough that it no longer looks hideous at a glance. Better yet, now that the new oil has turned a nice amber color you can't see all the imperfections! The flat sheet of 0.030 polycarbonate will make for a lifetime supply of new lenses.

Another new discovery tonight after adding oil to the rotary and table gearboxes was that they were wired backwards. Yet another booby trap from our mischievous maintenance man. At start-up I made certain I had the rotation of the spindle correct but took it for granted that everything else would be correct, too. Not so. The table ran to the end and didn't trip the feed. After a little head scratching I figured out why, so I observed what would happen were the stops also on the rotary and it was backwards, as well. Not hard to fix, but the manual indicates that damage can occur if the rotation is backwards and maybe it is for this very reason.

When it was outside I didn't think to wash out the sump while I could tilt it on the forklift. I'm still debating with myself as to whether I should haul it back outside or scrape out what I can and be content that things are pretty much going to settle out, anyway. Of course, when I pull them for a good cleaning, checking pump rotation is next on the list.

ramsay1 · Jun 1, 2019

Good thing you caught the phase rotation problem with the machine... On the lenses, I use clear 50mm welding goggle lenses made of plastic and shape them with a sander.. Has worked pretty well for me in the past....Looks like you are coming right along.. Ramsay 1

K&T 2D Rotary 11-5256 -- my new toy.

Titanium

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