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Nx + Hypermill or only Nx
- Thread starter Al_Ma
- Start date
- Replies 97
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Uh...no. They are not updating any model, other than in simulation. No re-calculation of the toolpaths take place. You program the part in perfect cad position. It might have been programmed 3 weeks ago. Or a month ago. Doesn't matter. One toolpath or twenty. Doesn't matter. You set up the part on the machine. Doesn't have to be perfect...that's the whole point. Run a very simple and uncomplicated probing routine. Load the POSTED G-CODE into hyperMILL's Virtual Machine, which reads in the probed points, compares it to the actual CAD points and re-positions the POSTED G-CODE to fit the part as it now sits on the machine. The only place the CAM model is rotated is in simulation, because otherwise, the repositioned code would call out violations on the non-repositioned SIMULATION ONLY model. The model in CAM does not get realigned.
It 'doesn't' update the CAM model in the HyperMill CAM file, It updates the part position in the Simulation simulation software and reposts it out in that orientation. So technically it doesn't alter the part position of the model in HyperMill
Interested to know if how you would align the part If the part is out of both square to C and flatness to A? I have ran a machine that does have a probing cycle to align a part if it is out like this but not sure how I'd do it on a machine with just standard Renishaw probing macros, Obviously you could just probe the part, but if you were looking to automate it.
I stand corrected, although you need to have the realignment points prior to posting out the Gcode. Can fusion properly simulate/collision check the realigned toolpath on the part?
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
You’re making a set of distinctions without any difference. Hypermill is taking a point cloud, translating the posted code position, running a quick simulation, and then sending the code back out…
Why do I care if it transforms my model or not? Perhaps it’s because NX has the worlds best CAD system built into it, that I don’t really care. Any transformation would be a parametric feature in the tree that I could get rid of very easily, so I just don’t see the value in the Hypermill workflow.
And let’s back up for a moment- why is my part positioned like shit so bad I need to do any of this? 3D prints I am post-processing is the most reasonable answer, but for the vast vast majority of parts, none of this is especially necessary- probing and G68.2/Cycle 800 solve the minor positioning issues, at the machine, and without all the hassle.
i'm not sure.
i agree, for most people its a neat gimmick. maybe if you're machining castings you'd use it?
If I've programmed a part that has a lot of heavy calculation tool paths on it, I then have to rotate the model, recalculate and collision check, do this every time with a part that isn't fixtured or positioned well, then this would be a right ball ache. In Nx would you not then have to recalculate and collision check again after moving the part? Also moving that part would mean I would have to change drive curves etc as well along with the part, frames may also have to be realigned. Would you not have to do the same in NX, even if deleting the rotation after is simple?
boosted
Stainless
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2014
- Location
- Portland, OR
The best fit function is just a gimmick to sell users on the new machine simulation. We already achieve the same functionality inside hyperMILL using probing cycles to update the WCS or perform a datum shift.
I really, really like hyperMILL, but the whole Virtual Machine was a total waste of resources IMHO. They had this absolutely massive lead in five axis technology 10 - 15 years ago, and instead of building on that, they've chosen to dump effort into things like remote machine interfaces and a new automation platform. I think they became focused on doing "sexy" projects that make places like Apple and Facebook excited - instead of improvements for the customers that actually use their software to make money.
Don't get me wrong, it is a great piece of software. But I become enraged every time I see these vanity projects, because some of the most frequently used toolpaths have been fundamentally broken for years. Engineers who know how to write software and also know how to machine parts are an extraordinarily rare find, and I hate seeing their precious output squandered.
I really, really like hyperMILL, but the whole Virtual Machine was a total waste of resources IMHO. They had this absolutely massive lead in five axis technology 10 - 15 years ago, and instead of building on that, they've chosen to dump effort into things like remote machine interfaces and a new automation platform. I think they became focused on doing "sexy" projects that make places like Apple and Facebook excited - instead of improvements for the customers that actually use their software to make money.
Don't get me wrong, it is a great piece of software. But I become enraged every time I see these vanity projects, because some of the most frequently used toolpaths have been fundamentally broken for years. Engineers who know how to write software and also know how to machine parts are an extraordinarily rare find, and I hate seeing their precious output squandered.
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no such thing as frames in NX, you pick your tool orientation from the part geometry, you can move all your drive geometry all together if you needed to.
gkoenig
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2013
- Location
- Portland, OR
So what makes NX so great is how crazy modular it is. The CAM side provides a host of options for translating already generated toolpath - rotate it, move it, pattern, mirror, etc etc. On the CAD side, we have a whole slew of tools for measuring differences between point cloud data - put them together and you have Best Fit technology.
None of this is new in NX; these technologies have existed going back to the Unigraphics days and probably outdate half the posters here. Modern NX's surfacing tools can step it up and even use Best Fit surfaces (the NX surfacing tool name, not the Hypermill thing) to take points off of very organic shapes with non-orthogonal features, build parametric features from that probe point data, then derive the exact position of the object in machine space and translating the path. All standard out-of-the-box tricks for NX.
There's CAM software out there that can't translate already generated toolpaths? I've been able to rotate, move, pattern, mirror toolpaths for years in CAMWorks, it's a great option to have. I probably use patterns daily.
I know NX CAD side is superior to SolidWorks, but with CAMWorks being fully integrated and built solely into SolidWorks, it is a huge plus having a CAM/CAD system that works seamlessly together and can update the already generated toolpaths when something on the CAD side changes or being able to load in updated part with a rev change and the toolpaths update accordingly to feature changes.
Some of these features are irrelevant to some programmers that just load in a part, program it and that's it and have minimal CAD need. I have a lot of repeat parts that go through slight changes and being able to allow the CAD side to identify the changes and update the toolpath is incredibly efficient. I just did some parts for a customer, no print provided, I didn't expect to get 6 PO's back to back in 2 weeks, the parts changes were so minute, on the screen you couldn't tell. I almost just ran the same program but caught the saved file name was 1 digit off so I compared them and the changes were some features moved .062". Brought the new part in and updated the 40-60 operations, program was done in minutes.
Alex,
Sorry we have gotten off track here on this thread. Comparing NX to Open Mind's hyperCAD-S (hyperMILL's stand alone CAD system) obviously isn't comparing apples to apples. Where NX CAD is a very good for product development and design, hyperCAD-S was built from the ground up as 'CAD for CAM', optimizing hyperCAD-S's CAD capabilities for the NC programmer, making it very quick and intuitive for construction geometry creation, selection and manipulation. It does have parametric solid modeling, but its strong suit is in its surfacing capabilities.
Get a good, in-depth demo of both systems on your geometry...your toughest part. Keep an eye on user interface, workflow, intuitiveness, speed of calculation, stock recognition/tracking, collision avoidance, hole patching, geometry selection techniques, simulation, etc.
It is true that with hyperMILL, you will lose the CAD/CAM integration. If that is of paramount importance to you, NX might be the way to go. hyperMILL does directly read in NX parts and does have a merge and compare function that will identify and isolate geometric differences between revisions. Then you can update your milling area and recalculate.
Look for innovation between systems. Do both systems create not only collision free but collision avoided toolpaths at the time of calculation? Do both systems create virtual surface extensions (runoff) that exist only within the cycle itself, with no additional CAD work? Are both systems capable of mapping finish toolpaths directly on surfaces, as opposed to an internal triangulated mesh model, creating superior surface finish? If both systems are equally capable, easy to learn and close in price, look at post processors and, probably the most important aspect of getting a new CAM system...support! Will you be dealing with a VAR, who may or may not have the expertise you need for your answers, or will you be dealing with the software developer's support team?
thank you all!
I am in the final phase of the negotiation and within a couple of weeks at the latest I will have chosen.
regardless of the choice I will make, I can say that in my opinion Hypermill is more performing than NX CAM, they have created many dedicated demos for me and NX cam was in no case better than Hypermill at most it was at the same level. One of the few points in favor of NX Cam is that thanks to the super power of Siemens by paying you can have an integration with all probing systems or any other possible integration .... just pay ... pay a lot ...
For the Cad side it wasn't in question.
nx draw shape, nx algorithmic modeling, are just some of the features that amazed me!!!
I am in the final phase of the negotiation and within a couple of weeks at the latest I will have chosen.
regardless of the choice I will make, I can say that in my opinion Hypermill is more performing than NX CAM, they have created many dedicated demos for me and NX cam was in no case better than Hypermill at most it was at the same level. One of the few points in favor of NX Cam is that thanks to the super power of Siemens by paying you can have an integration with all probing systems or any other possible integration .... just pay ... pay a lot ...
For the Cad side it wasn't in question.
nx draw shape, nx algorithmic modeling, are just some of the features that amazed me!!!
i forgot that best fit works differently from NX probing.
in nx you can automate via the probing module a probing cycle which via G54 or G55 seems to me to compensate for the probed origin without performing other simulation checks or part updates and this could be great.
The best fit instead updates the position of the and recalculates the toolpath and reruns the simulation, this does not automate the workflow but makes it more correct the proceedings.Il simulatore di nx è fantastico e molto versatile in quanto puoi simulare gcode generati da altri programmi e quindi può sostituire ncsimul o verycut.
the new Hypermill VMC simulator could only be used with Hypermill, however it should optimize all toolpath rapids and retracts and should resolve any collisions by recalculating the toolpath.
in nx you can automate via the probing module a probing cycle which via G54 or G55 seems to me to compensate for the probed origin without performing other simulation checks or part updates and this could be great.
The best fit instead updates the position of the and recalculates the toolpath and reruns the simulation, this does not automate the workflow but makes it more correct the proceedings.Il simulatore di nx è fantastico e molto versatile in quanto puoi simulare gcode generati da altri programmi e quindi può sostituire ncsimul o verycut.
the new Hypermill VMC simulator could only be used with Hypermill, however it should optimize all toolpath rapids and retracts and should resolve any collisions by recalculating the toolpath.
CAMasochism
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
- Location
- DFW, Texas
One of the few points in favor of NX Cam is that thanks to the super power of Siemens by paying you can have an integration with all probing systems or any other possible integration .... just pay ... pay a lot ...
This is the true feature that NX has over all other CAD/CAM programs out there.
Areo Defense
Aluminum
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2022
Everyone has been discussing basic cad. I don't recall seeing much discussion on working with assemblies, assembly level modeling, drafting, etc-. Not to mention working with dumb solids. As for the latter, NX Synchronous technology used to be pitched towards working with dumb solids but now its feature set is so robust, it has value for using it on fully parametric models as well.
When editing dumb solids people like to say their system can do all that- parametrize, pull, move, offset, change blend, etc, but the big difference that sets NX apart from the others is the level of complexity of a given model manipulation function it can perform where others with supposed similar functionality will fail. Everyone can do simple, not everyone can do complex.
When editing dumb solids people like to say their system can do all that- parametrize, pull, move, offset, change blend, etc, but the big difference that sets NX apart from the others is the level of complexity of a given model manipulation function it can perform where others with supposed similar functionality will fail. Everyone can do simple, not everyone can do complex.
I fully agree with what you said, in my sector I work a lot with complicated and organic surfaces that are not geometric or regular, from what I have seen nx cad is better than all the others.
