Hurco Turning centers-Who's got them?

Ox · Sep 28, 2013

Since you are already Hurco literate, and like it - I would say that this is likely a very good investment for you too. I will agree for sure that being fluent with even the most cumbersome of controls is still better than not knowing what you are dooing with the best one.

Dave - Not able to doo G2 or G3, at least in the SHOPMILL side.
And the tapping routine in ref to that whole Z axis ref plane in the program header thing ??? :bawling:

Fortunately we hardly ever write new progs for these machines!
I need to try my hand at the ISO side again and see if I make any more headway....

Right now I have one throwing Y axis drive faults and not able to figger out why yet...

That "fluent" thing comes into play here....

------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Dave K · Sep 28, 2013

Dave - Not able to doo G2 or G3, at least in the SHOPMILL side.
And the tapping routine in ref to that whole Z axis ref plane in the program header thing ???

A G2 or G3 really has simpler ways of being stated in shop mill, rather than naming the G code with I's, J's, or R's. It's either "circle center" or "circle radius". Once you choose one of those, the x, y, i, and j are there for you to fill in the values.
The headers reference plane thing, is really the same as your G98 and G99 codes. The retract plane is like where one might set a G98. and the safety distance is where one might set their G99. Then on the bottom of that page, there is a "retract pos.-patt". On that screen if you have it set to "to rp", it will retract to the Retract plane between holes during drilling or tapping, and if you have it set to "optimize" it will retract to the safety distance.

Usually I have the Retract plane set to 1.000, and the safety distance set to .100.

munruh · Sep 28, 2013

Dave K said:
I don't want to steal the thread topic, but this just doesn't make much sense to me. If conversational has any limitations, they're no greater than the limitations of a canned cycle. Canned cycles cover you through basics, but not much else, just like your claim of coversational.

Second, I agree 2 axis lathes aren't difficult at all to program. You say the key is to copy and paste from a master program template. The irony here, is that's exactly what a conversational program is doing. It's basically a master template, where you fill in the blanks. Sounds just like a canned cycle, wouldn't you say?

The thing that makes conversational rise above is that there is actually more flexibility than that of a canned cycle. Don't count Haas, I call that "semi-conversational". It's doing nothing but building your G code program.

Okay I will reveal my ignorance and ask a question or two here. I have worked with CNC lathe for 15 years. First it was with Okumas and we had IGF. I did all the programming on them and learned nothing about G-code. IGF worked very well. Now we have a couple Doosan lathes and we have Gibbscam. I find myself doing the simplest parts in Gibbscam. I will make a edit or two in g-code. I understand it and can read it somewhat. But what about chamfers and radii? This is where I don't even try. What do you do? I can program a canned cycle g-code program with straight cuts, but where I hit the wall is with the radii and chamfers and then the tool nose radius yet. What do you do about chamfers, radii, and tool nose radius when you hand program? In Gibbs we just put in the nose radius and the program comes out perfect.

Dave K · Sep 28, 2013

munruh said:
Okay I will reveal my ignorance and ask a question or two here. I have worked with CNC lathe for 15 years. First it was with Okumas and we had IGF. I did all the programming on them and learned nothing about G-code. IGF worked very well. Now we have a couple Doosan lathes and we have Gibbscam. I find myself doing the simplest parts in Gibbscam. I will make a edit or two in g-code. I understand it and can read it somewhat. But what about chamfers and radii? This is where I don't even try. What do you do? I can program a canned cycle g-code program with straight cuts, but where I hit the wall is with the radii and chamfers and then the tool nose radius yet. What do you do about chamfers, radii, and tool nose radius when you hand program? In Gibbs we just put in the nose radius and the program comes out perfect.

I use cutter comp on all my lathe programs. So, if I am programing a 1 inch turn that goes back .5 inches, and then goes up to a 2 inch diameter turn, puts on a .01 radius, and then goes back 1. inch, my code would look like this:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X1.98
G2 X2.0 Z-.51 R.01
G1 Z- 1.
etc

As you can see, if I want a .01 radius, I just make the machine swing a .01 radius on the corner I want. As far as compensating for the radius on the tip of the tool, my cutter comp takes care of that for me.

Ox · Sep 28, 2013

I almost never use cutter comp on a lathe.

If you have a .030 rad tool and you start your X .1 under nominal and at Z0 and move to X nom Z-.05, you get a decent chamfer. Adjust up or down from there.

Starting and ending at the same points with a G3 R.05 should give you a .02 rad.

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Jashley73 · Sep 28, 2013

As a side note, I always use cutter comp. Program straight off the print, and the part gets cut to match the print. It's just too easy not to do it...

About the Hurco control. They actually have a pretty good G-code editor on their control. It usually displays and highlights the error for you, so that you know where and what to change. Their DRAW function is also pretty neat too. Very powerful, and very simple to use too. Kudos to Hurco for that. But I never understood the tool-files and different work offsets for g-code and conversational programs. That to me sounds like a crash-o-matic mistake waiting to happen...

proturn · Sep 28, 2013

Jashley73 said:
As a side note, I always use cutter comp. Program straight off the print, and the part gets cut to match the print. It's just too easy not to do it...

About the Hurco control. They actually have a pretty good G-code editor on their control. It usually displays and highlights the error for you, so that you know where and what to change. Their DRAW function is also pretty neat too. Very powerful, and very simple to use too. Kudos to Hurco for that. But I never understood the tool-files and different work offsets for g-code and conversational programs. That to me sounds like a crash-o-matic mistake waiting to happen...

You have the option to use Global offsets if you wish or you can use the "Part setup" offset page. Most G-coders prefer to use the global command page. With the latest WinMax you have the choice which one you use. They've really came a long way!

Steve's Hobby · Sep 28, 2013

implmex said:
Hi Steve's Hobby:
As I'm sure you can appreciate, the look of any given used machine says almost nothing about the quality of the guts, nor their condition.
Pristine paint and shiny sheet metal may be a sign the machine never ran right, or was unpopular, or needed lots of fixing.
Also, low end machines like Haas are often bought by one man shops, and hobby guys, so they get babied by their owners in a way that multi user production machines never do.

Of course, some machines get abused by rough bastards and brainless hackers, but the evidence of that is usually pretty obvious; the sheet metal has dents where stuff escaped and whanged it, there are pieces missing where stuff got ripped off the machine by a crash, it sounds like a bag of rocks when you turn it on; you get the picture.
A Haas that looks nice might well be a perfectly good machine, but it will never compete with a Mori that's dirty and missing paint but is mechanically sound.
It's awfully tempting though, to look more favourably on the clean machine; used machinery dealers know this, and that's why Porch Paint Rebuilds are so popular on places like EBay.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

Really,well I have seen lots of photos with lines of Hass machines in fairly big operations, I assume the larger outfits could afford what they want, and to stay in business they would need a quality machine, not a low end. I understand the price poiint, but... could it be that the Hass quality has improved ? It would be interesting to know the stats from Hass on how many shops have say; over ten of their machines ? If they are so low end, why do they have such a following here and overseas ? Just some more thoughts...

vettedude · Sep 28, 2013

Steve's Hobby said:
Really,well I have seen lots of photos with lines of Hass machines in fairly big operations, I assume the larger outfits could afford what they want, and to stay in business they would need a quality machine, not a low end. I understand the price poiint, but... could it be that the Hass quality has improved ? It would be interesting to know the stats from Hass on how many shops have say; over ten of their machines ? If they are so low end, why do they have such a following here and overseas ? Just some more thoughts...

Price is ALWAYS important if you are worth 1 trillion or 50k, you still consider price.

Steve's Hobby · Sep 28, 2013

vettedude said:
Price is ALWAYS important if you are worth 1 trillion or 50k, you still consider price.

Exactly, and obviously, then value counts, if a good machine will do the same job for a lower price, albeit maybe not a Rolls or Mercedes but say on the lines of a good solid Toyota, Ford or Chevy, then the money vote will go to... the less expensive machine which can still do the job just like the car can get you from A to B. Always nice to have the best but at what cost ? and what do you give up to get it ?

implmex · Sep 28, 2013

Hi Steve's Hobby:
I have one...They're a low end machine.
I didn't say they're a crappy machine or a useless machine (I am actually very happy with mine), but if you've ever run a high end machining center of any kind, you can easily tell just from the sound of it, which has the better spindle bearings, the more rigid frame, the beefier ways etc etc.
But we're drifting rather badly off topic here; my apologies to the OP.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

ewlsey · Sep 28, 2013

Dave K said:
I use cutter comp on all my lathe programs. So, if I am programing a 1 inch turn that goes back .5 inches, and then goes up to a 2 inch diameter turn, puts on a .01 radius, and then goes back 1. inch, my code would look like this:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X1.98
G2 X2.0 Z-.51 R.01
G1 Z- 1.
etc

As you can see, if I want a .01 radius, I just make the machine swing a .01 radius on the corner I want. As far as compensating for the radius on the tip of the tool, my cutter comp takes care of that for me.

You shouldn't even have to do the math with a fanuc. It can automatically chamfer or radius with the linear moves.

You use:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X1.98
G2 X2.0 Z-.51 R.01
G1 Z- 1.

Try this instead:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X2.0
Z-1. R.01

Okuma does this too. I think it's an M code though. My memory is hazy. I think Okuma can also auto chamfer or radius all corners to the same amount.

Garwood · Sep 28, 2013

Steve's Hobby said:
If they are so low end, why do they have such a following here and overseas ? Just some more thoughts...

I've never used one, but I don't know anyone who has claimed they're in the same league as Mori, Mazak, Okuma.

ewlsey · Sep 28, 2013

What following? I've been in a lot of shops and I've never seen a Hurco except for those old knee mills they made. I've sure never seen a Hurco lathe.

In all the videos I have seen, the turret stops at each tool when it indexes. What's up with that? Even my ancient Mazak doesn't do that.

There are so many machine tool brands out there. I toured a shop that had a ton of Comet machining centers with Meldas controls. They were slowly scrapping them (literally) and replacing them with Haas.

Another shop I know has a bunch of Dynapath machines. Apparently Dynapath will source a Taiwanese machine with their control and sell you the whole thing. That's basically the same as a Hurco or Milltronics.

Dave K · Sep 28, 2013

ewlsey said:
You shouldn't even have to do the math with a fanuc. It can automatically chamfer or radius with the linear moves.

You use:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X1.98
G2 X2.0 Z-.51 R.01
G1 Z- 1.

Try this instead:

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X2.0
Z-1. R.01

Okuma does this too. I think it's an M code though. My memory is hazy. I think Okuma can also auto chamfer or radius all corners to the same amount.

Haas also does this, but I didn't know if his fanuc will. I have to try it on mine.

Ox · Sep 28, 2013

Looks like someones proprietary butchered G code to me...

???

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Philabuster · Sep 28, 2013

Ox said:
Looks like someones proprietary butchered G code to me...

???

This is butchered G-code to you?

G0 X1. Z.1
G1 G42 Z0
G1 Z-.5
G1 X2.0
Z-1. R.01

Now I'm confused. Most old Fanucs I have used would do radii and chamfers inside a G1 move. This feature was enabled by a parameter setting somewhere.

We even had one really oddball OLD Fanuc lathe (designated 'TC' control) that would cut an angle in a G1 move designated by 'A' for angle. Given G1 Z-5.0 A15. it would move to absolute Z-5.0 while moving X axis on a 15° angle for example.

Ox · Sep 28, 2013

Yep - never seen anything like that before.

The "A" thing seems quite logical, but no - never seen an example like that before either.
I would expect that on the M version - but I have never ran a Fanuc mill, so ....

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

SeymourDumore · Sep 28, 2013

Ox said:
Yep - never seen anything like that before.

The "A" thing seems quite logical, but no - never seen an example like that before either.
I would expect that on the M version - but I have never ran a Fanuc mill, so ....

------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ox

The Fanuc and Haas uses R and C for rounding and chamfering respectively on both, mills and lathes.
The Mitsubishi on the NL needs to be ,R or ,C.

Nonetheless, they are neither butchered nor proprietary.
Dunno when Fanuc implemented it, but mid 90's Haas did auto corner and chamfer on 90 deg. intersections, and since sometime in the early '00-s they do that on any angle
intersections.
Both of my Moris do it as well.

I've never used the C as it is useless to me, but the R is almost always used when I'm handwriting code.

Ox · Sep 28, 2013

Well, a '99 18i is the newest Fanuc that I have.

I could try it sometime.

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Hurco Turning centers-Who's got them?

Diamond

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Diamond

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Titanium

Stainless

Cast Iron

Stainless

Cast Iron

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

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