Best beginner machining center no programming experience

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

Vette guy; I do have experience in a machine shop just not that familiar with machining centers. I agree with Comatose. I think I could easily fill a tool holder with every tool I need and have a bunch left over for 3 or 4k. I do appreciate the feedback. The little research I have done puts a lot of used machining centers in that range. If I need to spend more than I don't mind.

The reason I want to buy a machining center is because I am spending $6000-10000 a month in machining services. Nothing I do needs to have a really tight tolerance, but I would prefer it to be a close as possible.

The only heavy cutting I do is on the wedge itself (2" face cutter), everything else can be done with a drill bit or end mill.

Would I be better off buying a knee mill with the accurite millpower on it? The ones that I have used have been really simple to run. Would a knee mill handle a .120" cut with a 2" face mill in mild steel? or am I going to rip it apart?

Going to do some more research on the fadal. Does anyone have any specific details on exactly which model and year to buy? or what to look for specifically?

There seems to be tons of the 4020 fadals for sale. Is there is something I should look for specifically to make my life easier? Is there anything that is commmon that breaks on them that I can watch out for? Does anyone have a reputable used equipment dealer?

Thanks again for all the help and feedback guys. It is really appreciated.

is this what I'm looking for

USED FADAL VMC-4 CNC VERTICAL MILL 2 1 4 .2 .2 " 1 RPM VMC 32 MP CONTROL | eBay

Hi I would looking around you first and see if you can find a machine. 30 percent and rigging is very costly. Where do you live?

I'm in perth, just west of ottawa. That is the type of machine I am looking for though? is there any type of control I should look for or are they all the same? Should I find one that is newer, or one with lower hours? Sorry, I'm just not that familiar with this equipment.

heres a couple more I found on ebay, just to make sure I'm on the right track here

FADAL VMC 4 CNC MILL MILLING Mfg. REFURBISHED YEAR 2 7 4th & 5th axis prewir

2 5 FADAL 4 HT CNC Vertical Machining Center -VMC-CNC Mill # 77863 7 | eBay

Hi I would look at machines only close enough for you to drive and look at, also if you think you found a good machine pay someone that knows what to look at so you don't buy a POS.

Maybe Aaron Gough might stumble upon this. I believe he is in Toronto, but may be wrong, and I'm not sure how close that is to you, but being a fellow Canadian who went through the same thing over the past couple years might be able to shed some light on actual costs involved and good places to look for machines.

You might also search for his name. There was a pretty long thread that outlined what he had to do.

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eastonmade said:

I'm in perth, just west of ottawa. That is the type of machine I am looking for though? is there any type of control I should look for or are they all the same? Should I find one that is newer, or one with lower hours? Sorry, I'm just not that familiar with this equipment.

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If my assumptions are correct, this machine will mostly be used for drilling holes, tapping, slotting, and some face milling. Since you have a product line, if you aren't going to try to take on outside machining work, I would not limit myself to conversational control. G-code for non-complex parts isn't too difficult to work through. Make sure you get the programming manual for whatever you buy. Even if it takes longer to program, since you will probably just keep running the same programs over and over, that extra time will just amortize over the time you make the parts over and over. It would probably be easier to program direct, than to learn a CAM system if you don't already have experience with CAM. There are likely more non-conversational machines to choose from than conversational machines.

When I was looking for a machine, my priority was

1) Condition
2) Local (for me this meant Eastern/Central Ontario, or Western Quebec)
3) Brand that is still in business.
4) Common control that is discussed online so I don't have to rely exclusively factory support

For locating a machine, Kijiji can work out sometimes. I know a local guy that bought a CNC mill out of Quebec that he found on Kijiji, and I believe Aaron Gough found his on Kijiji in Ottawa.

I second TWR's suggestion to see the machine running before buying. I looked at a few in person and always learned stuff about the machine that I wouldn't have without making the trip. Like the one machine in Toronto that I was assured was running and in great shape over the phone. In reality when I got there, it was covered in boxes that obviously had been there for quite a while, and the guy that was supposed to be able to fire it up, and was scheduled to be there, somehow wasn't around. Hmm... I didn't buy that one.

I think if you ask Aaron he put a pile of money in the machine and some down time in their to. Maybe he would went a different route.

Your parts are being made by a real shop with real machines now right? You think for a second you are going to save money/improve lead times by going to a CNC knee mill?

Something else to consider is how much free time you have paying for items to be made compared to that you will be using your free time to make the parts. It may work for you if your wife and kids are on board if you have any. Just stuff to consider.

Doug said:

In case nobody has mentioned it, before you buy check to make sure there's a service man in your area. Preferably one who has worked on the type machine you're looking at.

Be aware if nobody in your area has experience on the machine you're looking at you'll be paying him $100/hour to educate him.

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Also 70 to 100 a hour driving time.

garwood; thats all the shop I am dealing with now uses.

barbter; I checked out the prototrak. Interested to see what their bedmills are worth. Looks like what I'm looking for. Really just need something sturdy enough to make the heavy cuts on the knives.

I am a licensed millwright, I think I would be capable of doing a lot of the repairs myself with minimal guidance.

Bed mills make a mess, all 3 axis machining centers are is big bed mill with tool chargers and enclosed to keep the coolant and chip mess inside.

I got looking at the Prototrak LPM. I think that might be the machine for me. Looks like it has a user friendly conversational control and their 240v. Does anyone have any experience with the prototrak LPM machines?

Yes, I clicked the like it ... and that's from someone, me, who grew up with the N/C industry, {started in 1959} when we had minimal machines and controls...r

and IF your part quantities are greater than ONE part at a time
do not let a tool changer machine scare you, they arnt all that complicated and the time saved making part number 2 will amaize you,,
buy the tool changer mil

good luck

I thought you needed 36" if travel that machine only had 31"?

I could work with 31"

eastonmade said:

I am a licensed millwright, I think I would be capable of doing a lot of the repairs myself with minimal guidance.

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I would suggest a Tree VMC 1060 before a Fadal 4020. With the Tree you're getting more torque and power. We have a '93 and have stuck maybe $30k total into the machine(including original purchase price)and are going on 5 years with it.