haas mini mill or hurco vm5i

gregormarwick · Jul 27, 2020

Mike1974 said:
I hear alot of crap about Haas lathes being underperforming. To be transparent, I've never personally ran a cnc lathe other than a Haas (well, operated a swiss just checking parts...), but we had an older SL30 and it cut 4140ph day in and day out. 10-12" dia blanks, removing most of the material, made clutch flywheels, and held tolerance all day long. Every cycle we put the load meter in the red too, and it just ran and ran...

To OP, not much experience with Hurco so can't say about that. One thing though, in the US (I see you are not) every one and their brother knows Haas controls, and the resale is absurdly high for some reason.

Not trying to be a dick, but you really can't claim objectivity with no frame of reference.

For example, the SL-30 from what I can find can deliver somewhere between 400-450Nm of torque for 5 minutes, supposedly a 22KW motor.

A Victor V-Turn26, which is basically the same size as an SL30, when optioned with a 22KW spindle motor, can do 870Nm for 15 minutes.

Mike1974 · Jul 27, 2020

gregormarwick said:
Not trying to be a dick, but you really can't claim objectivity with no frame of reference.

For example, the SL-30 from what I can find can deliver somewhere between 400-450Nm of torque for 5 minutes, supposedly a 22KW motor.

A Victor V-Turn26, which is basically the same size as an SL30, when optioned with a 22KW spindle motor, can do 870Nm for 15 minutes.

I didn't say I was being objective. :toetap:

All I meant was they can take a cut. Ya, probably nothing like an Okuma, but they can and do take cuts, which some people seem to immediately dismiss them as "haaspower" "can't cut tool steel" :blahblah:

Does Haas make lemons every now and then, sure (and probably backed up by a few members here). But so does every other company.

AJ H · Jul 27, 2020

Hardplates said:
The fact that Haas publicly supports current racist organizations is enough for me that they would never get a dime of my money. Japanese MTBs seem to stay focused on machines and keep their politics quite. I would suspect the Taiwanese to share more in common with the Japanese than Americans but I could be wrong. I don't go actively searching for this kind of crap but when it gets shoved in my face I move on.

It may not matter to some or even most but, some people may care where their money is going.

WTF are you talking about?

Hardplates · Jul 27, 2020

AJ H said:
WTF are you talking about?

That's what I'm talking about.

theperfessor · Jul 27, 2020

I get a black screen.

AJ H · Jul 27, 2020

Hardplates said:
View attachment 295038

That's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, right wrong or indifferent, they should stay in their lane

theperfessor · Jul 27, 2020

What are you people talking about?

jason61c · Jul 28, 2020

g-coder05 said:
I definitely agree with this statement 100%. I haven't figured out why Haas hasn't grabbed a foothold in Europe like they have the Americas and Asia. Seems on the mid level machines Hurco has that territory nailed down. I just lost my shop manager to De Havilland in Stonehouse England UK and they are buying Hurco VM-20's like we buy VF-2's.

Its a tough one. I guess they're not seen in the same quality bracket? Not saying that they're not, just that they're not seen as being!

BSCustoms · Jul 28, 2020

FS: 2015 Brother Speedio R450X1, 16k rpm, Pallet Change VMC

JCByrd24 · Jul 28, 2020

theperfessor said:
What are you people talking about?

Blackout Tuesday - Wikipedia

I'm not sure how Hardplates took this as supporting racist organizations, the intent was exactly the opposite.

AJ H · Jul 28, 2020

How is a group spotlighting one race above others not racist?

TonyStark · Jul 28, 2020

To the OP, I have run haas in a shop but bought a hurco VM10 when it came to spending my own money. I was originally looking at a VM5, but choose the VM10 because the travels and easier access (VM5 door is very tight). I think the VM10 was actually smaller than the “larger” of the mini mills. I don’t use conversational much but I do a lot of 1 offs- the 3d simulation is awesome as a NC code double check and has saved my ass a few times.

gregormarwick · Jul 29, 2020

TonyStark said:
To the OP, I have run haas in a shop but bought a hurco VM10 when it came to spending my own money. I was originally looking at a VM5, but choose the VM10 because the travels and easier access (VM5 door is very tight). I think the VM10 was actually smaller than the “larger” of the mini mills. I don’t use conversational much but I do a lot of 1 offs- the 3d simulation is awesome as a NC code double check and has saved my ass a few times.

I've spoken before about how much I like the Hurco control, and we also do practically zero conversational work at the control. I wouldn't buy a Hurco for production as while the VMX series are decent, there absolutely are better machines out there*. But when you mainly do complex one-off / small quantity work the control is a joy to work with, even if you couldn't care less about the conversational like me.

• Extremely operator friendly, which reduces the chances of operator mistakes when you are interacting with it frequently
• Fantastic cycle interrupt controls
• Very intuitive tool management
• Very intuitive handling of work offsets
• Really nice conversational probing and inspection
• Best verification graphics I have seen on any control, hands down
• Plenty of memory (for a cnc control - 2GB ram + hard disk) and fast processing speed, effortlessly handles huge gcode files.

Downsides of the control are the lack of a basic MDI mode (not a huge hardship as you just put it in a program instead, but kind of annoying sometimes), and that it's windows based which makes it flaky if you leave it too long between restarts.

* I've never been disappointed with the actual machining performance of our VMX or DCX, but what they seem to have in common is very mediocre chip evacuation and poor coolant tank design, which are annoying enough that I wouldn't want to run these machines in a production environment.

EmanuelGoldstein · Jul 29, 2020

AJ H said:
How is a group spotlighting one race above others not racist?

Because when one group of people strictly on the basis of skin color has been enslaved, whipped, beaten, lynched, murdered, shot in the back, choked, tortured, systematically fucked over for four hundred and fifty years in the US and pre-US, maybe, just maybe people ought to think of making some changes ?

I didn't realize Haas did this but now, seeing it, they go up ten points in my estimation.

Plus anyone taking on the IRS then teaming up with Tony Stewart is not a bunch of snowflakes. Go Smoke !

I still wouldn't buy a Haas (or any modern) lathe though. Gimme that old-time cast iron, gimme them old-time box ways, gimme a big-ass motor, and let's go cut some steel.

(Back to mills, I'd be taking that Cincy that Ox has for a grand, put some money into it and have a real real nice small-shop mill, do all the programming offline, preset the tools, and keep a lot of money that otherwise would be going to the bank for payments. There's some older machines out there that are great.)

gregormarwick · Jul 29, 2020

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Because when one group of people strictly on the basis of skin color has been enslaved, whipped, beaten, lynched, murdered, shot in the back, choked, tortured, systematically fucked over for four hundred and fifty years in the US and pre-US, maybe, just maybe people ought to think of making some changes ?

I didn't realize Haas did this but now, seeing it, they go up ten points in my estimation.

Plus anyone taking on the IRS then teaming up with Tony Stewart is not a bunch of snowflakes. Go Smoke !

I still wouldn't buy a Haas (or any modern) lathe though. Gimme that old-time cast iron, gimme them old-time box ways, gimme a big-ass motor, and let's go cut some steel.

I don't like when companies that sell products try to push ideas. It's so fake. Companies don't have ideas, people do. It doesn't matter if it's something that I personally support or not, that company exists for me to maybe buy whatever it is that they're peddling, and that's all.

If some people at Haas support BLM, let them say so on their personal twitter accounts, and keep it off of the official company one.

EmanuelGoldstein · Jul 29, 2020

gregormarwick said:
I don't like when companies that sell products try to push ideas. It's so fake. Companies don't have ideas, people do. It doesn't matter if it's something that I personally support or not, that company exists for me to maybe buy whatever it is that they're peddling, and that's all.

If some people at Haas support BLM, let them say so on their personal twitter accounts, and keep it off of the official company one.

Haas is still Gene's baby. It has his name on it and it can do whatever he wants.

Beyond that, I think your point is wrong. When companies forego morals, then you get what we have .... Bain Capital. Sometimes it's b.s. and a whitewash, but even a whitewash is better than shooting people in their beds. Agreed, action is better than talk but talk is better than pretending the problem does not exist.

(No, Im not a snowflake "micro-aggressions" wailer but murder is beyond the pale. Time to stop that. Long beyond time to stop that. Companies need to speak up also.)

ChipSplitter · Jul 29, 2020

Hardplates said:
The fact that Haas publicly supports current racist organizations is enough for me that they would never get a dime of my money.

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Because when one group of people strictly on the basis of skin color has been enslaved, whipped, beaten, lynched, murdered, shot in the back, choked, tortured, systematically fucked over for four hundred and fifty years in the US and pre-US, maybe, just maybe people ought to think of making some changes ?

I didn't realize Haas did this but now, seeing it, they go up ten points in my estimation.

Oh. My. Goodness. Guys.

Leave that worn-out race card out of the discussion.

Next thing we know there will be politics in the CNC Machining forum.

God help us all! :willy_nilly:

toolsteel · Jul 29, 2020

Most of my experience has been with Mazak and Mori
My opinion of Haas has always been that they are a budget machine. Decent for bicycle parts etc.
I have recently been "loaned out" on a work project that has put me in contact with a couple of Haas mills. I have been pleasantly surprised. The interface seems familiar and the codes are mostly standard. I can make it do whatever I want it to do with no additional training. The control is pretty user friendly.
It does have some power and rigidity limitations compared to what I am used to......but comparing them to a larger, beefier machine would be unfair.
Another plus for around here......many of the tech schools and high school programs are using Haas machines. It will make for an easier transition for a tech school guy to step in and do some operating for us.

In a nutshell.....better than expected
Not sure that helps you, but hopefully it adds something to the discussion.

Mike1974 · Jul 29, 2020

I can't speak for Hurco as I have not seen one in over 10 years, but another thing to consider is the Haas control layout has not changed in 15+ years. So no, Fanuc 31i Oim, etc.

Sure the NGC for Haas has changed the menus and how to navigate (which I still don't personally care for), but all the control buttons are the same*, and same location for lathe and mill, so if you can get around one, you can do the other too pretty damn easily. The alpkabetical keyboard is a bit odd, but at least you don't have to constantly use shift to get different letters, but to be fair I don't know if newer Fanuc controls still do it like that...

*They did replace dry run with graphics, but I don't use it anyways.

haas mini mill or hurco vm5i

Diamond

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Cast Iron

Hot Rolled

Cast Iron

Plastic

Cast Iron

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Titanium

Diamond

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