Fadal turcite/way reconditioning- how far should I go?

I have no doubt about the experience and knowledge that Richard would provide, and if this was a machine worth the cost I would go for it. As much as I would love to take on the learning experience from a pro, I can't justify that kind of cost to learn a skill that ultimately is unlikely to produce a significant return with my business model or even be used in the future on a regular basis.

Dbsharp said:

I have no doubt about the experience and knowledge that Richard would provide, and if this was a machine worth the cost I would go for it. As much as I would love to take on the learning experience from a pro, I can't justify that kind of cost to learn a skill that ultimately is unlikely to produce a significant return with my business model or even be used in the future on a regular basis.

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rebuilding a $5000 machine is always going to cost way more then the purchase price. Hard part after is finding someone to pay more then the going rate even if it is perfect and factory like specs.
although if you had a couple grand to put into it, id be taking his class, then replacing the turcite and learning how to scrape it back in as the most economical way to fix it.
the other thing is that free play is different then ball screw wear. mine has zero free play but had 0.011" wear in the screws before the table started moving the opposite way in X and about 0.0032 in Y. At that point its all new ball screws for $3000 ish per axis

Thank you GWilley. I will be teaching a class in Rockford at Bourn and Koch - one of the greatest machine builder left in the USA in March. I'll be posting about it in the Reconditioning forum soon.

Dbsharp said:

I have no doubt about the experience and knowledge that Richard would provide, and if this was a machine worth the cost I would go for it. As much as I would love to take on the learning experience from a pro, I can't justify that kind of cost to learn a skill that ultimately is unlikely to produce a significant return with my business model or even be used in the future on a regular basis.

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Then try it on your own with our help. All you need is a straight edge and some bluing. You probably have the other tools now. Maybe you can rent or borrow the Granite SE the other member used. If you can use the worn out machine use it while you can

For anyone who may follow this thread in the future, I measured flatness on my x axis ways and found it to be within .0005" over any 36" span everywhere except for two spots where it is slightly over .0005. There is some wear, and it is slightly bowed with the center being low. I just had my straight edge calibrated and surface plate lapped. The tech said the straight edge was flat to .0001, and the plate is now flat to .00025, so I have reasonable confidence in my measuring of this. I think this may be good enough to meet my needs without grinding, and will be checking the y axis today.

I have read a theory that the saddle's lower ground surface for the straps is unlikely to be worn, as the straps are probably not adjusted or touching, and I can say on my machine, this is not an accurate assumption. I found chips were really packed in on the straps, and a lot of the turcite had been worn off by them (and probably the ground surface on the saddle too).

DB. The ways were not made that way. I have worked inside new machine factories. Think about it where does most of the machine run? It does small jobs and it only wore in that area. I have been rebuilding machines for 50+ years of all sorts in conventual and CNC Vertical machines they wear in the middle and not on the front and back ends of X,Y and Z.

Turcite and Rulon mfg. recommend that you tighten the gibs and hold downs tight with no clearance as PTFE (Teflon plastic with bronze mixture) gets slipperier when tight and is self lubricating. If you were to ask the Rulon Mfg. for specs of its thickness they would say (+ -) .0025". The material is made in 12" and 24" wide sheets that are rolled and it is difficult to have the same thickness.

Many new machine builders in Taiwan glue on the material and then grind it flat and co-planer, cut oil grooves and scrape .002" deep oil pockets in it for lubrication, At the Hartford factory the spot face small holes in the material in large NC mills to act as oil pockets after they are ground.

I never saw this but I was told that at the Fadal factory when those machines were made they used double face tape and attached sand paper on the ways and rubbed the saddle and table on the sand paper to get a tight matching fit. I don't sand, I scrape match fit the material so it has oil pockets so oil is always under the ways. At new machine factories a that did not scrape oil pockets the Turcite /Rulon got stick slip especially on Y as the extra weight would rip of the material because of the friction. Some call it stiction.

I am not bragging, but I have seen this at YCM in Taiwan as I taught machine building classes there. I have seen this on Kitimura, Fadal, YCM (Supermax) when I rebuilt machines here in the USA. I hope that explains things a bit more.

Richard, what you are saying about wear is matching what I have found in my measurement. It's a bit low in the middle.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge about turcite shaping.

Your welcome. If you need some advise on putting on the new Rulon private message your phone number as it's so much easier to talk then text or write here.