Eames chair repair.

TDegenhart · May 2, 2019

I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section. I understand completely replacing the vernier but how are you going just replace the vernier over the repair and have it match the original in color, texture and grain?

Tom

PeteM · May 2, 2019

TDegenhart said:
I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section . . ./QUOTE] Think there might be veneer intact on the broken piece - with a bit of artful staining planned at the break? As with others, I'll be watching how this turns out. Not something I'd be confident pulling off, but I also don't have a fraction of the experience of Tr or henrya in doing this sort of thing.

stoneaxe · May 3, 2019

Trboatworks said:
Now where is the fun in that.

The repair is less expensive than factory new or shop formed back.
Hardly marginal as the repair will be stronger than the original and keeps the chair original with the Brazilian rosewood matched to rest.
What’s in it for me- I am too busy to turn around and spit but have always enjoyed some work outside of “run of mill”.
At that I would turn this away if off the street but for a long term client- I am happy to turn my practiced hand to the work for them.

Fair enough

Another way to approach this is to glue it up as you suggest, then use a long radius scarf cut along the axis of the break on the inside, from almost through to feather edge a few inchs out from the break. Then bag the veneer patch pieces in on a curve, and resurface flush with the inside and put one more veneer over the scarf and rest of the back, on the inside. I like your idea of using a carbon fiber first laminate, as it will go very close to the outside and help prevent the back from breaking again if it receives a load that puts the out side in tension- like the chair falling over.

"This chair is classic enough and breaks here often enough that there is a shop which is advertising ‘correct’ repair." Hmmmm. What type of ply core is that? Bending poplar or some such?

Trboatworks · May 3, 2019

I don’t know what the ply is- thin, about .33” under the finish veneer.
The chair is celebrated for its tech and design and comes with “was a product of years of development” in its bio.
The first thing I will do is cut out a bit of that ply and sus out what the grain orientation and species.
From what I am reading the chair stood the test of time as they say.
The big vulnerability is the bonded rubber shock mounts which tend to fail with age.

Wood guys/cabinet makers such as myself who spend enough decades around boats tend to get their design sense contaminated by marine engineering.
Every loaded panel I see is compromised of a core and structural skins.
“I see what the problem is with this Eames bloke, he over loaded the rosewood skin laminates....”

Trboatworks · May 3, 2019

TDegenhart said:
I follow this repair right up to the point of trying to replace the vernier over the repaired section. I understand completely replacing the vernier but how are you going just replace the vernier over the repair and have it match the original in color, texture and grain?

Tom

After gluing up the break, the first step is to remove all of the old ply right up to just under that surface veneer.
During final glue-up, that veneer will be bonded to new work.

Think of it this way- if I am building a laminate in a mold the first scrim might be onion skin fine carbon cloth or even a paint film sprayed into the mold.
It will have no meaning that there was a break in that veneer as I am just thinking of this as a pigment film.
The only real trick to this work is separating the veneer from the old ply.
At this point I am relying on the Zimmermann profile sander and it’s .03mm accuracies lol.
When I set up this work the chair back will be bonded to the mold segment of that corner and stay there till pulled as a fully finished new corner laminate.

Keeping that outside veneer intact and getting it bonded to the new work is the only real ‘trick’ to getting this done- otherwise it’s just a joinery exercise.

Trboatworks · May 3, 2019

Trboatworks said:
.....it’s just a joinery exercise.

My shop mascot is mumbling in the background:
“Yeah- whatever you say buddy.”
“What about cutting that 12:1 scarf through a 6” radius corner in .3” of material?”
“What about getting a laminate schedule to hold that radius and still be worth anything carried just half way through that corner?”
“Ya think about that you big dope?”
“Easy to talk a big game- let’s see this actually happen”..

stoneaxe · May 3, 2019

Trboatworks said:
My shop mascot is mumbling in the background:
“Yeah- whatever you say buddy.”
“What about cutting that 12:1 scarf through a 6” radius corner in .3” of material?”
“What about getting a laminate schedule to hold that radius and still be worth anything carried just half way through that corner?”
“Ya think about that you big dope?”
“Easy to talk a big game- let’s see this actually happen”..

Your mascot called me on the phone. Needs a counseling referral.

BTW, what is a Zimmerman profile sander?

Dumpster_diving · May 3, 2019

Don't know about a joinery exercise, but keeping with the boat-building theme, seems (to me) like a straightforward cold-molding exercise.

As has been said, the two 'tricks' are:

1) achieve a decent structurally strong scarf along a curved surface- but at least you've got the existing plys to help you keep track of how your curved scarf is forming as you sand away. They'll reveal topographically how even your scarf is forming.

2) how to aesthetically deal with the rosewood surface ply. Museum-quality...you'd want to preserve as much original material as possible and having the glue-joint of the thin scarf end be at least noticeable would be preferred (as it would indicate the repair). Home-use quality...you'd want to replace the entire outer ply so the back of the chair looks original.

Horses for courses.

Trboatworks · May 3, 2019

stoneaxe said:
BTW, what is a Zimmerman profile sander?

Ha- so glad you asked.
Just about the nicest ribbon sander one could dream up.
Back in the day they were the world standard- built primarily for pattern makers shops and so dear that only this trade cashed out for them.
They come to market now as pattern shops close which is how I got my hands on this one.

The platens are 14” tall and the machines come with a set of eight in various widths and face profiles- flat and convex.
These are capable of very high standard work in sanding deep profiles square or to selected angles.
‘Zimmermann’ means woodworker in German and as far as I can tell the firm manufactured high standard machines all primarily for the pattern makers trade- band saws, wood lathes sanders etc.
They are not common in the States.
The pattern shop this came out of had a perfectly beautiful Zimmermann pattern makers lathe with all the accessories on the block- sold for a paltry $1200 if I recall...
Virtually free for that class of machine.
But... too much for my shop which needs nothing more than the small wood lathe I have.
Perhaps true for many shops hence the lack of interest..

I will make up the mold segments and do all the fitting work for this repair on the profile sander.

stoneaxe · May 3, 2019

Trboatworks said:
Ha- so glad you asked.
Just about the nicest ribbon sander one could dream up.
Back in the day they were the world standard- built primarily for pattern makers shops and so dear that only this trade cashed out for them.
They come to market now as pattern shops close which is how I got my hands on this one.

View attachment 255782

The platens are 14” tall and the machines come with a set of eight in various widths and face profiles- flat and convex.
These are capable of very high standard work in sanding deep profiles square or to selected angles.
‘Zimmermann’ means woodworker in German and as far as I can tell the firm manufactured high standard machines all primarily for the pattern makers trade- band saws, wood lathes sanders etc.
They are not common in the States.
The pattern shop this came out of had a perfectly beautiful Zimmermann pattern makers lathe with all the accessories on the block- sold for a paltry $1200 if I recall...
Virtually free for that class of machine.
But... too much for my shop which needs nothing more than the small wood lathe I have.
Perhaps true for many shops hence the lack of interest..

I will make up the mold segments and do all the fitting work for this repair on the profile sander.

Cool tool! I had never seen one. The platens run vertical behind the belt? Post up a few pic's if you have the inclination, when you are doing the repair. Curious as to how the belt tracking is done against a curved platen.

memphisjed · Jun 7, 2019

how does the repair look?
did you glass or carbon fiber under the outer vernier? was this reinforcement on inside and outside of curve?

Trboatworks · Jun 8, 2019

I have been BURIED in normal run of mill work.
This repair is still in the wings waiting for a bit slower time.
Terms are just that with the client thankfully- for me it’s the sort of project to be enjoyed not slammed out the door.

Jim Williams · Nov 27, 2019

I would like to know how this repair worked out. My work experience left me with strong interest and some knowledge of Eames type products. The company I retired from in 1989 produced equipment that utilized the Eames laminated wood concept. Our formed laminated wood parts were subcontracted to a small company that made this work their only product. When the owner retired and closed shop, the company I worked for took over the lamination business, including all the equipment from the small shop. I was Involved in design at that time and engineered some equipment using formed plywood techniques, giving me familiarity with the process. I later became plant engineer and was concerned with equipment maintenance and process improvement, leaving me with more experience and fascination with the Eames concept. When my employer ceased manufacturing, I ended up with some British equipment for sharpening tungsten carbide circular saw blades and router bits.

Trboatworks · Nov 27, 2019

Hello Jim,
This project is still on hold till contact work calms down in mid winter.
I will post a photo series when I get to it.

MZ · Nov 27, 2019

I repaired the back support of a late 50's Eames DCW, done in matt ebonized ash veneer, a few years ago.

As I recall the core veneers were soft poplar; it is a stressed-skin engineering construction, with the hardwood face veneer carrying a disproportionate share of flexure strength.

I removed the core for some distance each way and scarfed in solid wood (I think I used white oak), keeping the face veneer intact for show.

If your finish is glossy, unlike mine, you could maybe add a transparent layer of light kevlar or glass in clear epoxy over the face without it being too distracting. This skin would likely surpass the tensile strength of the original veneer.

BTW my chair's failure was also probably caused by decay of the rubber shock mounts. I believe Herman Miller charged me about $50 to vulcanize new mounts to the backrest; they evidently do (or did) this a lot. If the rubber gets hard or falls away due to age, the resulting stress concentration causes the veneer to fail, the poplar crushes and comes apart, and it's a short ride to the floor.

Mike

GillNetter · Aug 10, 2021

MZ said:
As I recall the core veneers were soft poplar; it is a stressed-skin engineering construction, with the hardwood face veneer carrying a disproportionate share of flexure strength.

Mike,
If the plywood construction of these chairs was such a detailed engineering production and the top veneer accounted for the majority of the structural integrity, how did they account for all the different species of wood that offered as finish material for this chair over the years? I guess you design for the weakest material and the other more robust species are bound to be fine but there may be other variables like brittleness that need to be factored in. Wonder how and if his repair turned out. Given the last post on 11/2019, a lot has happened to the world since then.
Years ago in reading how Eames developed this wood forming method for the US Military Doctors to use for leg and arm splints, they were all described as veneers of ash. I don't think they were steam bent, just formed pliable layer by layer over a curved form. Either the writer was not privy to actual details or maybe the stress skin technique came about later in the furniture designs. Interesting.

Steve

EmanuelGoldstein · Aug 10, 2021

Trboatworks said:
From what I am reading the chair stood the test of time as they say.

Umm, there's Louis XIV (300 years ago) chairs around, unbroken, while this thing is less than fifty years old, so ... maybe withstood the pop quiz of time ?

richard newman · Aug 10, 2021

EmanuelGoldstein said:
Umm, there's Louis XIV (300 years ago) chairs around, unbroken, while this thing is less than fifty years old, so ... maybe withstood the pop quiz of time ?

A lot of the furniture from that period one sees has been restored or repaired, especially the really valuable stuff.

But I agree, much of the late 20th century stuff is over-engineered and under built. Or designed to only last for a while, like cars

VoodooBeach · Oct 26, 2022

Trboatworks said:
This molded ply back to a ca 1973 Eames lounge chair just landed in my shop.
I have some tricks up my sleeve to repair but was wondering what you fellas think as to approach.

This is a highly loaded part...

View attachment 255656

View attachment 255657

Charles Eames, Ray Eames. Lounge Chair and Ottoman. 1956 | MoMA

This is the same repair my dad's Eames chair needs, do you know of any company or person that I could ship to and have them do this repair. And did you ever get this one repaired? Thank You, River

trevj · Oct 27, 2022

Honestly, looking forward to seeing how you manage this.

Am thinking that epoxy/glass bagged on to both sides is pretty much out of the question, as is simply making the part new.
From either side, it looks a right bugger to try to taper in a scarf repair around that curve!

Eames chair repair.

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