Ironworker for hobby shop

dana gear · Nov 29, 2022

Nmbmxer said:
I think the hydraulic ones are a lot safer than mechanical ones, especially for a casual user that isn't used to operating one. I've not personally seen someone get hurt on a hydraulic one but have seen smashed fingers from trying to hit two interlocks then grab the part before the punch hits on a mechanical.

We had 3 Buffalo mechanical iron workers in the shop when I was a kid, sometime in the late 60's we retired them, as there had been inhouse modifications to them over the years we desided to scrap them rather then sell because of the liability even in the 60's It's the land of lawyers, lawsuits and idiots.

Ries · Nov 30, 2022

Buffalos are good for production work, but safety is an issue. Once you start that cycle, there is no stopping it. But for general fab shop work, where you might need 4 holes 1" diameter punched in 3/4" plate one day, and 200 pieces of 3/8" round cut to length the next, hydraulic ironworkers are much much nicer. The good ones have the ability to "inch" down the punch, rather than just have a complete stroke every time you hit the pedal. This means you can align holes with a center punch mark, for a one off.
Decent fixturing, including built in steel tape measures that are accurately fixed to the machine, make it amazingly fast and easy to cut to length and locate holes.

DDoug · Nov 30, 2022

I've used my neighbors very old mechanical Buffalo several times for punching.
There is a handle much like a drill press handle that manually brings the punch down, so you can align it with a punch mark.

Hold it down, step on pedal, easy peasy.

No fiddling with a hydraulic machine in inch mode, can't trap your finger once it's down on the plate either.

ernieflash · Nov 30, 2022

Nmbmxer said:
I think the hydraulic ones are a lot safer than mechanical ones, especially for a casual user that isn't used to operating one. I've not personally seen someone get hurt on a hydraulic one but have seen smashed fingers from trying to hit two interlocks then grab the part before the punch hits on a mechanical.

i got killed literally by a buffalo number1. I hit the pedal and a 9/16 bullety shot me in the stomach !!!!!

DDoug · Nov 30, 2022

ernieflash said:
i got killed literally by a buffalo number1. I hit the pedal and a 9/16 bullety shot me in the stomach !!!!!

A hydraulic punch would doo the same....

Nmbmxer · Nov 30, 2022

The problem we had was how the two hand interlock was implemented on a machine from the 60's. It wasn't that hard to set a plate on the die and reach up and slap both buttons, then grab the part and slide it around since it took a second or two for the flywheel to catch the ram and shove it down. But get your finger under the plate and it would bite you hard. I hated that machine and never used it myself but I saw someone lose both thumb nails punching some 1/8" angle. If it had been 3/8" he would have lost digits.

ernieflash · Dec 3, 2022

DDoug said:
A hydraulic punch would doo the same....

agreed but once you step on the pedal there is no turning back with hydraulic you can stop !!!

DDoug · Dec 3, 2022

ernieflash said:
agreed but once you step on the pedal there is no turning back with hydraulic you can stop !!!

Yes but the punch shattered, doo you think with a hydraulic one you could stop it in time ?
Doo you think you would hear a crunch before the shrapnel starts flying ?

Ries · Dec 3, 2022

DDoug said:
Yes but the punch shattered, doo you think with a hydraulic one you could stop it in time ?
Doo you think you would hear a crunch before the shrapnel starts flying ?

Punch? I read this as the blank flew out and hit him. I have had that happen dozens of times, usually with stainless 3/8” and up. If ut misses me, it can hit the wall 30 feet back. Doesnt happen with nice soft A36, but SS and some stcky copper alloys can do this.

DDoug · Dec 3, 2022

Ries said:
Punch? I read this as the blank flew out and hit him. I have had that happen dozens of times, usually with stainless 3/8” and up. If ut misses me, it can hit the wall 30 feet back. Doesnt happen with nice soft A36, but SS and some stcky copper alloys can do this.

Poster said "9/16" bullet"

ernieflash · Dec 8, 2022

Ries said:
Punch? I read this as the blank flew out and hit him. I have had that happen dozens of times, usually with stainless 3/8” and up. If ut misses me, it can hit the wall 30 feet back. Doesnt happen with nice soft A36, but SS and some stcky copper alloys can do this.

ernieflash · Dec 8, 2022

the punch broke and hit me
with hydraulic machine you can "feel" that something is not right.
it was my fault the material i was punching was a piece a AR500 and i did not know that when i was punching it
I paid for that act of stupidity, but at least i am still here to talk about it

Strostkovy · Dec 21, 2022

DDoug said:
Yes but the punch shattered, doo you think with a hydraulic one you could stop it in time ?
Doo you think you would hear a crunch before the shrapnel starts flying ?

Sort of. Assuming we are talking about the type of punch driven by a flywheel that can exert an order of magnitude more force than it is designed for if set up incorrectly, then yes, a hydraulic press would just stop itself.

Granted, you can still use a die that would be obliterated by full tonnage of the press, but hydraulics lend themselves to adjustable tonnage pretty well. Not that anybody uses it. Our Adira press brake stayed cranked at 70 tons unless we were doing something premiumly sketchy. Though being able to accurately adjust pressure without having to have something pinched in the machine would go a long way towards making that safety feature a convenience instead of a nuisance.

(Of topic story, but our Adira brake has a high and low flow pump. We adjusted the speed transition switch so it would stay at rapid travel for the full stroke. The pressure relief valve was actually pretty solid down to 2 tons, so we pressed in a batch of 800 bearing races with it. The guy taking the bearings out of the individual bags couldn't keep up with the guy doing the pressing).

DDoug · Dec 21, 2022

Strostkovy said:
Sort of. Assuming we are talking about the type of punch driven by a flywheel that can exert an order of magnitude more force than it is designed for if set up incorrectly, then yes, a hydraulic press would just stop itself.

Granted, you can still use a die that would be obliterated by full tonnage of the press, but hydraulics lend themselves to adjustable tonnage pretty well. Not that anybody uses it. Our Adira press brake stayed cranked at 70 tons unless we were doing something premiumly sketchy. Though being able to accurately adjust pressure without having to have something pinched in the machine would go a long way towards making that safety feature a convenience instead of a nuisance.

(Of topic story, but our Adira brake has a high and low flow pump. We adjusted the speed transition switch so it would stay at rapid travel for the full stroke. The pressure relief valve was actually pretty solid down to 2 tons, so we pressed in a batch of 800 bearing races with it. The guy taking the bearings out of the individual bags couldn't keep up with the guy doing the pressing).

A Scotchman Hydraulic ironworker does NOT have that level of hydraulic pressure sophistication.
Nor do most of the other manufs.

Strostkovy · Dec 21, 2022

DDoug said:
A Scotchman Hydraulic ironworker does NOT have that level of hydraulic pressure sophistication.
Nor do most of the other manufs.

Yes, but it does have a relief valve on the pump and will not exceed its rated capacity.

webphut01 · Dec 29, 2022

I am sure the original poster suffised somehow by now. I often like to chime in on conversations, even old topics, Its fun. Anyways, I have experience with only Pirahna Ironworkers. A bit overkill. Possibly not even in the same electrical current phase as far as power goes. If you can find a used one for cheap, 1/4" anything should be no problem for any Pirahna Ironworker no matter the tonnage, expecially for hobby use. Important thing to do though is make sure you get all the attachments for it or any ironworker for the matter.

The Hossfeld and the knock off look alikes of the hossfeld are great, but you really need to have some experience with one before conciderring purchasing one no matter how cheap a price you find one. Hossfeld can fabricate anything! And I truly believe anything! You need to have worked with someone or have been trained by someone with a lot of experience and a wealth of creativity, to really get the most out of a hossfeld. I can not count how many small fab shops i been in where I see in the corner, under some staircase, covered under a tarp or just caked over with dust, boxes of Hossfeld stuff. Most times its because the shop has no employees who know what it is or how to use it or make the tools for it. I have years experience with an old one and the tools i made for it are uncountable, but honestly, an ironworker would be on my list before a hossfeld. Ohh there is definitely a self satisfaction when fabricating with a hossfeld, but these days, I am more about hurry up and get it done, vs fabricating the tooling for the hossfeld to fabricate the project.

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