Atomic Hydrogen

zac4mac · Aug 12, 2008

Thanks for the insight.
The transformer is a GE beast, as the nameplate says, model 6WK17A.
I have precious little info, the patent app info from 1946 and some stuff I found at an "alternate" science website.

The guy I got it from had it since the mid-60s, I have no idea how old the unit is.

My garage wiring is a little light for this monster, so I only play with it for short periods.
It pulls close to 50 Amps...

hsemover · Aug 13, 2008

Tell me, what are the power input requirements/draws, and output rates on your machine?

zac4mac · Aug 13, 2008

Input is wired for 220, I have it on a 75A breaker.
Front panel says Primary: 68A @ 220V/34A @ 440V.
Output, according to the front scale is 15 - 100A, but the label says 75A @ a 60% duty cycle.

hsemover · Aug 16, 2008

Well, you certainly don't need to run it full blast so it should be reasonable for smaller things. I take it this is a Single Phase Input machine?

zac4mac · Aug 17, 2008

yes, I have single phase only 110 and 220 in my garage.

I've been playing with it set near minimum.

homemade · Aug 17, 2008

Was hydrogen embrittlement ever an issue?

zac4mac · Aug 19, 2008

The only time I saw the thing used was on an aluminum part for my motorcycle.
Hydrogen embrittlement only affects steels, yes?

I haven't seen anything regarding embrittlement in anything I have found on this welder yet.
Does the hydrogen not react the same if it's a high energy plasma?

Z

anchorman · Aug 19, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement

they say aluminum and beryllium are the least susceptible to hydrogen induced cracking. Maybe hydrogen embrittlement is one reason why this process became less used in industry? Tig welding seems a little less dangerous, and does the job pretty well.

anybody use one of these on steel?

-jon

zac4mac · Aug 19, 2008

The only info I've been able to find, other than the patent app from 1946 is a page where a guy is talking about a place that welds anchor chains with them.

They've been cannibalizing their machines to keep one running.

http://www.specialwelds.com/underwater-welding/atomic-hydrogen-welding.htm

Z

hsemover · Aug 21, 2008

As I mentioned before, I used the HA process to weld lifting equipment with one in the 70's. We formed chain links, bull rings, hooks and eyes, and welded the joints. The parts were then heat treated, inspected by the metallurgist, and sent into service there in the plant. It's interesting to me that what few machines remain are engaged in the same work. I had never heard of this embrittlement issue with the HA process before. What ever issues it cause's do not present themselves in welding steel with this process. (See my comments in this blog from 7-8-08)

zac4mac · Aug 22, 2008

Heheheh didn't realize that the link I posted was posted on the first page.

Hsemover, went to Miller's site and got the manual for the transformer you have.
Thanks for that, it helps understand my unit. They look very similar.
I wonder if Miller got their design from GE...

Sounds like I have a useful museum piece.
If anyone winds up near Longmont, Colorado and wants to see it, gimme a call.
Seven-Two-Oh Six-Three-Five 0877.

Zack

zac4mac · Aug 27, 2008

Just welded a couple of rail spikes together, first time I tried it on steel.
Worked like magic, more like brazing than my experiences at welding.

Keeping a small flame, the steel puddled at about a 1/8" radius and flowed with no crust or popping, periodically adding mild steel filler.
Very clean, zero slag.

I need a lot of practice on aluminum, but I think I can work with steel now...
Gotta get some scrap to play with.

Z

anchorman · Aug 27, 2008

how deep was the weld penetration? did you do any prep work/beveling? do you need spotlessly clean metal, or is some mill scale/minor corrosion not a big deal?

i'd love some pictures or a video or something. this sounds like a pretty cool process.

-jon

zac4mac · Aug 27, 2008

Penetration was spherical, around 1/8 - 3/16" with the smallest flame I could keep going.
I ground the weld area clean before I hit it.

No flux, just a copper-clad mild steel filler rod I had from my old O-A rig.
As I welded, any rust or scale just floated to the top.

I see why they like it for welding chain.

I tried it on some sheet Al and SS and just burned thru and made "art", maybe I can get a smaller flame with lower gas pressure.
I'm running about 10-12 psi.

Z

macona · Aug 28, 2008

You can use them to weld aluminum? I guess it would be like torch welding it. You would have to start out real clean. Aluminum does not really do anything before you suddenly have a hole. Thats the toughest thing about aluminum.

zac4mac · Aug 28, 2008

The only finished results I've ever seen from this welder was an Aluminum primary cover for a Sportster(Buell) engine.
Dale repaired it with the Hydrogen torch and it was a beautiful job.
Rebuilt a lip that carried the throw-out bearing.
Only required light machining to ready it for use.

Z

hsemover · Aug 28, 2008

I'm glad your getting the hang of it Zack. Your welcome for the Miller tip. It took me two days on the phone with several different guys to find the one that knew what it was and he sent me right to the book via their page. He said he had been there 35 years and never seen one but knew of it from the guy before him. It's always best to clean parts well before welding but as I mentioned before, the welding atmosphere is perfectly clean so the impurities float to the top and won't move back into the weld. The only thing they will do is to create a hole if you can herd them into a corner in a large volume...but it's hard. They want to come to the top and out of the flame. With practice you should be able to weld just about anything, but then the units you and I have are rather large ones, so thin work may not be perfect for them. The alloys we used to weld chains and other lifting equipment was 4615, 4620, 8615, or 8620. We used a rod that was aprox. 1/16" to 3/32" in dia. (It's been more than 25 years.) I never did know what the heat treat process was. As anchorman suggests, I would like to see this video taped as well. If someone is in a position to do this in my area I would accommodate them. Ditto on the welcome mat to my shop here in S. Central Wisconsin if you want to see the Miller Atomic Hydrogen working.

Hemiway · May 25, 2011

Firstly sorry for dragging up a very old thread but i am seaching for any information i can find on atomic hydrogen welding.
I am currently an atomic welder (among other duties). I use HA to weld chain and other lifting gear for PWB ANCHOR in Australia. to my knowlage we have one of the only working HA welders in Australia with 2 of the few trained operators around. We weld up any join-up links that are required in sizes from 3mm through to 32mm as well as any speacalty products our customers require. So if anyone has any questions about the process i can try to answer best to my abilitys, but my understanding of the process is more practical than scientific.

Hemiway

FlatBeltBob · Jun 10, 2011

If you go to the Rio Grande jewelry supply site , they sell a Hydrogen unit that you add water to , and it makes its own hydrogen .
It shows photos of flame coming out of tips the size of hypodermic needles .
Incredibly small and hot flames that are used for repair of delicate jewlery .
Maybe not what you are looking for , but very interesting .
Some jewelers refer to them as "water torches "

macona · Jun 14, 2011

Thats different from atomic hydrogen welding. Atomic hydrogen gets it high heat from the recombination of single hydrogen atoms into one H2 molecule. No oxygen involved.

Atomic Hydrogen

Plastic

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Cast Iron

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Titanium

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Plastic

Titanium

Plastic

Diamond

Plastic

Plastic

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Stainless

Diamond

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