Reminder - Do not ship a lathe LTL on a regular pallet

newtonsapple · Oct 8, 2022

mattthemuppet said:
I have a spare handle that might work for the carriage or tailstock if you want it for postage. Let me know and I'll take a pic and some measurements.

Thanks, I will send you PM.

johfoster · Oct 8, 2022

I would be a lot less surprised if the freight company sends you a bill in the mail for this, rather than a check... In my experience with shipping issues it will take a heck of a fight to get anywhere near $2500 back for it.

I agree the pallet is not sufficient for any lathe, but I would bet it would have made it had it been centered on the pallet. I suspect it flipped over from being strapped all the way to one side.

Curious if this was done through the govplanet website, and who the shipping company was? It's definitely a bummer, and I hope it works out okay for you in the end.

Fish On · Oct 8, 2022

johfoster said:
I would be a lot less surprised if the freight company sends you a bill in the mail for this, rather than a check...

Good point, after they put it back on the pallet, it was taller than what you originally stated - time for a refill.

Ups did that to be before on a ground package. It got caught in a machine and busted open on the line. They put the contents in one of their boxes, then returned to sender, which triggered a return to sender fee. Their box was bigger than the original box, so the automated scan system triggered a package size correction charge. Then, because the return to sender package was associated with the original tracking number, it backdated that size correction to the original shipment, and yes, charged me for that.

4 separate charges for the package up end up right where it started...

jccaclimber · Oct 9, 2022

Fish On said:
Good point, after they put it back on the pallet, it was taller than what you originally stated - time for a refill.

Ups did that to be before on a ground package. It got caught in a machine and busted open on the line. They put the contents in one of their boxes, then returned to sender, which triggered a return to sender fee. Their box was bigger than the original box, so the automated scan system triggered a package size correction charge. Then, because the return to sender package was associated with the original tracking number, it backdated that size correction to the original shipment, and yes, charged me for that.

4 separate charges for the package up end up right where it started...

Once something goes wrong shippers pull out the Teflon suits.
On a couple occasions we've received things with the packaging (and item mostly still inside) completely destroyed. The seller occasionally wants the destroyed item back, so we schedule a pick up with the original carrier. Half the time they refuse to pick it up on the grounds that "We would never touch. package that looks like that." After that song/dance to justify a higher return shipping charge we'll stick it in a bigger box and strap it to a pallet.

richard newman · Oct 9, 2022

Has anyone tried taking a shipper to small claims court? Not sure what the dollar limit is, but no lawyer is involved, except for the shipper. Many case the defendant doesn't even bother to show up.

Fun anecdote - I sold a 24" woodworking jointer to a guy in Austin TX. I'm in NY. Buyer arranges shipping with his broker, asks me to skid the machine (8' x 3', 2400lbs). Trucker calls me at 6pm the night before, says he's here, can we load now. NO - tomorrow morning as planned. Scary looking guy shows up with flat bed loaded with a couple of back hoes. WTF? I tell him buyer was expecting closed trailer, will have to get his ok for this. Of course he declines. When I tell that to the trucker, he blows up and starts shouting that someone has to pay for this. I calmly say I agree, absolutely you should be paid, but I'm really not involved in that.

Next truck is a huge, shiny, brand new semi, with 2 Russian drivers, both named Ivan. One speaks no english, but threads the needle and gets the truck perfectly lined up with my difficult dock on the first try. Other guy fluent, and very friendly. The trailer is completely full of Chobani yoghurt, with an 8' space at the back for the machine. In it goes, smooth as can be, and off to Texas. I got a kick imagining what it would look like if they had to stop short and the machine slid into the yoghurt.

newtonsapple · Oct 9, 2022

So I got the lathe running last night. I replaced the oil in the headstock and worked up to 600rpm over about 30 minutes. It sounds good. I got it off the base to move it from my day job office to my home shop.

I didn't spring for crating or a more expensive shipping option partially because the thing had been dropped or hit and there was a reasonable chance the lathe showed up with serious issues. It is also hard to tell from photos if things are dirty or rusty. Shipping something that is already broken certainly feels like throwing money into a hole.

This lathe actually has turned out to be in better condition than I expected and knowing what I know now about it. I would have definitely figured out a different shipping solution.

I did put an RFQ on UShip with the lowest pricing coming in at $960 to ship on a step deck trailer. That seems like a reasonable price for a lot of machines. Seems like a lot for this machine, but I would pay for it if I had a time machine. I need to check out some different options because unloading at a dock with a pallet jack is what I want to do for most equipment as I don't have a forklift.

john.k · Oct 9, 2022

All the trucking companies I deal with have a contract with the fine print of microscopic size ,in grey ,on a paler gray paper.......10,000 words of exclusions crammed into one page .....which you electronic squiggle with your signature..........in this state ,all the truckers say "we are not common carriers"......this excuses them from the laws made in the day when goods were carried by bullock wagons.........express freight by horse teams.

macgyver · Oct 9, 2022

Not to pile on here about not going to pick it up yourself, but I do all my loading and hauling unless it is last resort. I did pay a company to haul my biggest machine as it is too heavy and it required over width permits through 3 states and a crane on both ends. I have passed on many machines because the auction house required specific insurance to be able to load out or I did not have the time or truck to go get it. It is not worth it to me to gamble on having someone else do it for me because I just don't trust them to get it done right.
I know you said it was an 8 hour drive to go get it, but my guess is you will have more than 8 hrs (or 16 if that was one way) in it trying to fix it, not counting what ever time you may have in dealing with insurance, that is a huge time suck that is more aggravating than most things a person has to deal with and you will likely not even get your $143 back.

newtonsapple · Oct 9, 2022

john.k said:
All the trucking companies I deal with have a contract with the fine print of microscopic size ,in grey ,on a paler gray paper.......10,000 words of exclusions crammed into one page .....which you electronic squiggle with your signature..........in this state ,all the truckers say "we are not common carriers"......this excuses them from the laws made in the day when goods were carried by bullock wagons.........express freight by horse teams.

Yeah, the only chance I have is that the insurance is 3rd party. You are never getting anything from a carrier for a used machine. The odds of success are still not good though.

newtonsapple · Oct 9, 2022

macgyver said:
Not to pile on here about not going to pick it up yourself, but I do all my loading and hauling unless it is last resort. I did pay a company to haul my biggest machine as it is too heavy and it required over width permits through 3 states and a crane on both ends. I have passed on many machines because the auction house required specific insurance to be able to load out or I did not have the time or truck to go get it. It is not worth it to me to gamble on having someone else do it for me because I just don't trust them to get it done right.
I know you said it was an 8 hour drive to go get it, but my guess is you will have more than 8 hrs (or 16 if that was one way) in it trying to fix it, not counting what ever time you may have in dealing with insurance, that is a huge time suck that is more aggravating than most things a person has to deal with and you will likely not even get your $143 back

Picking up wasn't an option. Paying for more skilled transport or better packing would have been the smart choices.

This was also a lathe that I was comfortable gambling with. It had already been banged up once before and I did bid on it. I just should have made a smarter bet.

Cole2534 · Nov 3, 2022

dalmatiangirl61 said:
You got a bonus, those vertical lathes bring big $$$$!.

ooof, I think it may be a slant bed now.

neanderthal mach · Nov 4, 2022

I spent over 10 years in the LTL trucking business, some in this thread keep mentioning air ride trailers like there something less common or special. Today I think you'd have to specifically order a leaf spring equipped trailer as I've never hauled one that wasn't air ride. Insurance? Good luck and I sure hope you have a better chance getting something than the standard run around and line of BS trucking company's will pull just to try and deny any claim. Originally that Super 11 would have shipped from the factory in it's own crate and the bolt together base in a second crate. And that's how it should have been shipped this time. Somebody cut corners and tried to ship the whole thing as a fully assembled stand and lathe bolted together. Done right that could still work, but obviously that wasn't correct either. Fwiw you have my sympathy as those Super 11's are really well built & great small lathes.

newtonsapple · Nov 9, 2022

So apparently the 3rd party insurance through Freightquote is worth something or at least I got lucky. Insurance accepted the claim. It took carefully filling out about ten different documents. I put together an itemized repair list along with an reasonable hourly rate to install new parts. I got no pushback on anything, so I don't know if there was anything in particular that made the claim successful. I had a whole bunch of good pictures to show the original condition, that seems critical to show pre shipment condition.

One odd thing is that I never actually signed the delivery receipt. The driver called when I was a few minutes away from the office and I said to unload it on the dock. He never asked for someone to sign, I could have had someone from the office come down. The scanned proof of delivery from receipt showed a signature, but it wasn't mine or anyone at the office. I had a bunch of pictures of the lathe where is was delivered.

I've got most of the essential parts in from www.emcoshop.at/ and some from Grizzly and have started cleaning things up. I think everything I have come across is reparable. Scrubbing things will probably be the most time consuming, but I was in for that in non totally smashed up condition. The claim was for about 3/4 of what I paid then minus a $500 deductible. I would have preferred a non smashed up condition, but I am not totally underwater on this one. Well, that's not really true, I will have sunk more time in than I should.

Peter from Holland · Nov 10, 2022

triumph406 said:
It's a lathe, top heavy, even the most carefull driver isn't to prevent a poorly restrained lathe from falling over

Never had a problem with that though
My lathes get strapped down on the pallet and then inside the truck also
All load must be properly secured in Europe There is regulation for that

Peter

Nmbmxer · Nov 10, 2022

Another one of our plants transferred a mint Bridgeport Series II special to our dept. It had factory power feeds on X and Y and an Accurite dro. When it arrived it was in a van trailer and the knee locks were snapped off, the handles on both of the X and the Y cranks were snapped off, the 6F powerfeed box on the right side of the table was broken off and hanging by the wires, the Y axis glass scale wiring wasnt secured and the cable stretched until it broke the reader head off, and there is a fork hole in the mist coolant tank that was bolted to the side of the base. It was so clean in the pictures. Making a crate would have cost so much less in both man hours and money than fixing all this stuff.

newtonsapple · Nov 10, 2022

Peter from Holland said:
Never had a problem with that though
My lathes get strapped down on the pallet and then inside the truck also
All load must be properly secured in Europe There is regulation for that

Peter

I don't do a lot of LTL shipping, maybe one coming or going a month, load bars or anything securing a load seems pretty rare. I have seen them used, but I feel like half the time it was to secure a stacked and shrink wrapped pallet that had clearly already started listing to the side.

This is actually the second LTL shipment I have had flipped this year. I got a scroll compressor (like the one in the photo below) that was well strapped to a pallet. The compressor is 33" tall, 350lbs and is a pretty secure load. It was flipped at some point. Must have been a fork lift going too fast or maybe the fork driver found a dirt portion of a yard? The top edge covered in mud was the only way I really know what had happened. The side panel had a dent where the back of the suspended motor hit the panel. I hammered the panel flattish and everything was good.

With regard to insurance, standard carrier liability for a used shipment would have been $0.10/lb, so I might get $60 in the event of a total loss of the lathe. The third party insurance was $35 to cover the full invoiced value of the shipment less a $500 deductable.

4GSR · Nov 14, 2022

I bought this lathe earlier this year. It was on a very nice pallet in the pictures. You would have thought it was bolted down to the pallet. Well when it arrived at the shipping terminal to pick up, there was only one of the nylon straps attached and the other was gone. The nitwit forklift driver nearly tipped the lathe over on it's side trying to get the pallet on my trailer. That's when I realized the lathe wasn't bolted down to the pallet! Luck was on my side on this one.

newtonsapple · Nov 14, 2022

Wow, that was lucky. That one even had a reasonable pallet to start with.

Plenty of stories of lathes getting damaged from bad strapping or lifting. Leadscrews get bent lifting and ways damaged from metal strapping.

john.k · Nov 15, 2022

You have to remember that crating isnt cheap........the motorbike air freighters charge $1500 to make a very basic thing from 1"shs welded skeleton covered in blue plastic............a crate like a 1950 Monarch was shipped for export in would cost as much as a small house .........If possible ,I use old tyres to cushion critical areas ,like the front of a lathe ,then wrap in heavy clear plastic.....the plastic is far superior to straps in holding power. ..................however ,never use old tyres for export packing,the whole lot may be refused entry.

john.k · Nov 22, 2022

i picked up an old motorbike engine in a little crate this morning.......got the thing for one bid on ebay (99c) ,but the seller insisted on packing it properly at no charge,all I had to pay was the freight ......its a heavy lump too ,marked 54kg on the label......the couriers wouldnt deliver it ,too heavy,I had to pick it up at their shop ......no forklift ,no nuthin......not good for a hernia op six weeks ago.

Reminder - Do not ship a lathe LTL on a regular pallet

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