New (to me) VMC time.

pato · Jan 10, 2023

Dakotahm88 said:
Is that just the load for the 5th axis you think? Like removing the 4th and 5th the table itself should hold more weight?

Unless I am thinking of a different machine, that one only has a trunnion and no table(not a 3 axis with a trunnion mounted to the table, because that would not take 440 pounds on a small trunnion).

Cole2534 · Jan 10, 2023

Dude, enhance your knowledge prior to this purchase. It will pay dividends that even Bernie Madoff would admire.

Overland · Jan 11, 2023

Google the model # to get specs.
Looks pretty specialized.

VC-500A/5X

Mazak’s versatile VERTICAL CENTER UNIVERSAL 500A 5X CNC Vertical Machining Center brings advanced technology to high precision small-part manufacturing.

www.mazakusa.com

Dakotahm88 · Jan 11, 2023

I did last night

not really what im looking for unfortunately. Just need a 3 axis.

Dakotahm88 · Jan 12, 2023

Garwood said:
Are you stuck on a vertical? Are you capable of vetting a used machine pretty well?

Regularly there are great deals on early 2000's Japanese VMC's and HMC's. very clean, very high end 400MM HMC's from the late 90's pop up every now and then for a steal. 400mm HMC with a 30-60 tool magazine is same footprint as a typical 4020 VMC. When you get into the 100-300 tool mags they get pretty bulky.

I wouldn't say no to anything Mori-Seiki, Makino, Kitamura or Okuma. A 20 year old higher shelf machine from any of those builders will still smoke a brand new SS Haas in every possible way.

You'll find that $50k will go really far with these machines. The big boys with deep pockets that run high end iron aren't buying 20 year old machines. Many little guys get scared of potential repair costs associated with a machine that cost a quarter mil 2 decades ago. They like the appearance of a snuggly safety net that Mother Haas presents. The high end machines are generally very well built. When you find one, do your research. Call a spindle rebuilder and ask what a worse case scenario looks like for that model. (It's usually same or less than a Haas spindle BTW). Buy private party. No dealers, no exceptions. You will get fucked buying from a dealer.

Sometimes you might find some insane deals on machines with problems. Sometimes machines sell for nothing at auctions just because of timing or economic worries. There was a local aerospace auction like that recently. I just wanted a rockwell hardness tester in the auction. Got it for $87. Spent another $1000 in that auction on nice 4th's, 300+ Cat40 toolholders and a bunch of other stuff. Took everything I had not to throw down some bids on the Makino A81 that sold for $16k. Some other solid VMC's sold for less than $300 a piece.

Buy smart.

How about a 2014 Mastuura Vx-1000 for $48,000, assuming everything checks out on it….

Dakotahm88 · Jan 12, 2023

4700 hours. Only ever cut aluminum. Renishaw probe. Thru spindle coolant. All the bells and whistles.

They’re allowing me to send a 3rd party to inspect prior to accepting the offer.

Anyone have any experience with this machine model?

Dakotahm88 · Jan 12, 2023

Matsuura isn’t built in Japan anymore as of 2014-2015…..

DavidScott · Jan 12, 2023

Dakotahm88 said:
How about a 2014 Mastuura Vx-1000 for $48,000, assuming everything checks out on it….

Call the MTB first to see how much support you can expect from them if you do buy, and what it will cost. Good support on a used machine is priceless! No support is a deal breaker on the best steals.

M.B. Naegle · Jan 12, 2023

Everyone has opinions of one machine over another like Ford vs. Chevy, and IMO they are all right and all wrong :crazy:

. In the end, you've just gotta see what you can find, what kind of shape it's in, how does it's price compare to others you've seen, and most importantly who will support you? Even if you plan to do all maintenance and repairs yourself, you need to know how hard/expensive/long it is to get parts and manuals to you for that specific make and model. Some machines are high end sweet deals to run, but a PITA to get parts for. Others have issues, but loads of parts and community support.

Our last VMC we bought I started by writing down every single manufacturer I could find that made a model that would do what I wanted, then started narrowing it down by where was the "local" dealer, how was parts support, how common were they, etc. The "opinion" was the last part of the equation when we narrowed it down to three choices and went by our gut (and that turned out well for us).

Dakotahm88 · Jan 12, 2023

There’s one service company in Oklahoma. They service literally every brand. I will call them in the morning and ask them how hard it is to get parts for a few I’ve sparked an interest in.

Dakotahm88 · Monday at 11:31 PM

Garwood said:
Are you stuck on a vertical? Are you capable of vetting a used machine pretty well?

Regularly there are great deals on early 2000's Japanese VMC's and HMC's. very clean, very high end 400MM HMC's from the late 90's pop up every now and then for a steal. 400mm HMC with a 30-60 tool magazine is same footprint as a typical 4020 VMC. When you get into the 100-300 tool mags they get pretty bulky.

I wouldn't say no to anything Mori-Seiki, Makino, Kitamura or Okuma. A 20 year old higher shelf machine from any of those builders will still smoke a brand new SS Haas in every possible way.

You'll find that $50k will go really far with these machines. The big boys with deep pockets that run high end iron aren't buying 20 year old machines. Many little guys get scared of potential repair costs associated with a machine that cost a quarter mil 2 decades ago. They like the appearance of a snuggly safety net that Mother Haas presents. The high end machines are generally very well built. When you find one, do your research. Call a spindle rebuilder and ask what a worse case scenario looks like for that model. (It's usually same or less than a Haas spindle BTW). Buy private party. No dealers, no exceptions. You will get fucked buying from a dealer.

Sometimes you might find some insane deals on machines with problems. Sometimes machines sell for nothing at auctions just because of timing or economic worries. There was a local aerospace auction like that recently. I just wanted a rockwell hardness tester in the auction. Got it for $87. Spent another $1000 in that auction on nice 4th's, 300+ Cat40 toolholders and a bunch of other stuff. Took everything I had not to throw down some bids on the Makino A81 that sold for $16k. Some other solid VMC's sold for less than $300 a piece.

Buy smart.

On machines like Mitsubishis DM-800G that were designed for mold and die machining. Can these be used to cut steel? It’s up to 12,000RPM with HSK40E spindle. Literally can’t find any info on it online.

Garwood · Monday at 11:45 PM

Dakotahm88 said:
On machines like Mitsubishis DM-800G that were designed for mold and die machining. Can these be used to cut steel? It’s up to 12,000RPM with HSK40E spindle. Literally can’t find any info on it online.

Sure it can mill steel, but you need to know if HSK40 is right for you.

Dakotahm88 · Tuesday at 7:23 AM

Garwood said:
Sure it can mill steel, but you need to know if HSK40 is right for you.

Well, I only have KS200 at the moment. So regardless of which tool holding I get, I’m going to be spending a lot of money buying new holders.

Dakotahm88 · Tuesday at 12:18 PM

So what actually happened to me. I set the Max bid in a proxy auction for what I wanted to pay a week ago. I won the item today for about $4500 less than my max bid. But two days ago I got an email from auctioneer the the lot I was bidding on has changed. The changes were. (See attached photo) so I was bidding on a cat 40 machine, hours unknown, being a 2017 I assumed they would be somewhat low.

So now the cat 40 machine I’m bidding on and won is actually an HSK40E with 4566 cycle hours.

Seeing how I have zero cat40 and zero HSK tool holders it doesn’t really change my mind but. I’ll be cutting aluminum and steel, one of parts, that I’m not in a huge hurry for, so I really don’t know what would work better for me. I’m finding mixed reviews for the HSK. Is it really only good for light cutting at extremely high rpm?

If it’s not a good spindle I’ll email them and be like hey I didn’t bid on this.

wmpy · Tuesday at 12:48 PM

Were there tool holders included with the lot? The message they sent says the tool holders are HSK. It doesn't say the machine spindle is HSK. If it were me, I would want to go there and see the machine to verify for myself what spindle is actually in the machine. Auctioneers are not machinists. Or maybe have someone who knows the difference go there and check it out for you.

Garwood · Tuesday at 1:44 PM

Dakotahm88 said:
So what actually happened to me. I set the Max bid in a proxy auction for what I wanted to pay a week ago. I won the item today for about $4500 less than my max bid. But two days ago I got an email from auctioneer the the lot I was bidding on has changed. The changes were. (See attached photo) so I was bidding on a cat 40 machine, hours unknown, being a 2017 I assumed they would be somewhat low.

So now the cat 40 machine I’m bidding on and won is actually an HSK40E with 4566 cycle hours.

Seeing how I have zero cat40 and zero HSK tool holders it doesn’t really change my mind but. I’ll be cutting aluminum and steel, one of parts, that I’m not in a huge hurry for, so I really don’t know what would work better for me. I’m finding mixed reviews for the HSK. Is it really only good for light cutting at extremely high rpm?

If it’s not a good spindle I’ll email them and be like hey I didn’t bid on this.

HSK40 is itty bitty tiny compared to Cat40. Hope you realize that.

Vancbiker · Tuesday at 2:39 PM

Garwood said:
HSK40 is itty bitty tiny compared to Cat40. Hope you realize that.

Yes, HSK63 is roughly equivalent to a 40 taper.

Dakotahm88 · Tuesday at 2:57 PM

Data plate on back of machine is DM800G-HSK40E-M830

jaguar36 · Tuesday at 4:06 PM

So you spent $25k on a 11,000lb VMC designed for machining EDM electrodes, without even knowing what spindle taper it was?

Dakotahm88 · Tuesday at 4:13 PM

jaguar36 said:
So you spent $25k on a 11,000lb VMC designed for machining EDM electrodes, without even knowing what spindle taper it was?

No I was bidding on a VMC that stated it was a vertical machining center with 12,000rpm CAT40 spindle. Which should handle anything I’d ever do. by researching I understood that machines designed for machining electrodes will hold a tighter tolerance, but machine steel or aluminum just fine.

Then they changed the listing to correct that it was not a CAT40. Which got me thinking I may not want it now.

New (to me) VMC time.

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