Suggestions for Startup Manufacturing Businesses

adammil1 said:

Sure I think 3yrs back the Chinese government banned the import and stopped buying all of America's recycled plastics.

What most people don't realize is that most of your municipal recycling plastic was all being sold to China where they would process/reuse it. The Chinese were paying such high prices for the materials and had so much empty return container space on the ships that a domestic industry never really took off or was able to process it.

Now with China out of the picture a lot of that stuff has nowhere to go and is going to landfills from what the various videos I have seen on YouTube.

I think there has to be a large opportunity for someone to repurpose recycled plastic into new product. I gather it's really far too much effort to turn that old Ketchup bottle into a new one so you need a lower grade non food product to create with all that scrap.

Years back I saw plastic railroad ties the things seem to be a great market for all that plastic waste. They never rot and last forever and the railroads are willing to pay a premium for them over wood due to their longevity.

Now if only I had a few million dollars in startup capital and knew what it takes to take municipal scrap plastics and turn them into new products.

Does this qualify for the type of opportunity you're looking for?

Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

That's exactly the point of this open source project-

A Big Bang for Plastic Recycling

Garwood said:

That's exactly the point of this open source project-

A Big Bang for Plastic Recycling

Click to expand...

I see non technical people rushing in.....and making "bad product".

digger doug said:

I see non technical people rushing in.....and making "bad product".

Click to expand...

I agree - It would be tough for someone to suddenly pick up the necessary skills for something like this just because it looks potentially profitable. Whenever a high-tech opportunity appears on the horizon, there are likely some people out there who, by chance, already have the particular skill set necessary to pursue it. They are the ones most likely to succeed with it.

Garwood said:

That's exactly the point of this open source project-

A Big Bang for Plastic Recycling

Click to expand...

That's pretty neat and some of that artwork looks great but seems impractical for the real issue at hand. Did you watch the promo video? They want nice clean washed plastic, with paper labels removed. Where are you getting that at any scale?

The real opportunity seems to be figuring out how to take bales by the truck load from the municipal plants and quickly process them into a real product and making lots of it since a product made from recycled junk probably isn't going to fetch that high of a premium.

I wonder how clean and well sorted those bales really are? I always wonder when I toss that ketchup bottle in the bin with a little still inside how and when does it get cleaned prior to reuse? At the sorting plant or at the factory who buys the scrap.

I guess the question is how does a little guy who recognizes a great opportunity figure out how to jump into one and get something working with little knowledge or experience in the industry? Where do you go to learn a whole new industry?


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

adammil1 said:

I guess the question is how does a little guy who recognizes a great opportunity figure out how to jump into one and get something working with little knowledge or experience in the industry?

Click to expand...

Mostly, it doesn't happen and the odds of getting financed are about zero - if you have little knowledge or experience in an industry. I spent a bunch of time in corporate finance; very few deals are worth your time running around with (less than 5%) and fewer still ever get financed. So a key success factor is being able to quickly separate the wheat from the chaff - how to pick the winners. One thing a winner has to have is deep domain knowledge. Every industry has aspects that is like crossing a mine field, and without that deep domain knowledge you're not going get across it in one piece.

Almost all back-able innovations come from some guy who's been in a industry for decades and has some great new idea. Its never an imagined great idea in some field from a guy who knows little to nothing about the area. Those guys don't know enough to know why it isn't a good idea, and secondly, they have no credibility in the space so no one will believe their claim its a great idea

Where do you go to learn a whole new industry?

Click to expand...

Lets say I'm wrong and you've got the best idea ever, and its outside of your field. You either commit, quit your job, start working in that industry etc, or you seek out and get deep domain knowledge on your team - someone from the industry. Not just "from", but has lots of credibility and hopefully a bit of star power - when they talk, others listen. Same old same old....if you can't build it, buy it.


** one my accounting profs'....."everyone in the country has great ideas and is a brilliant strategist, but its execution that counts". If you got the best idea ever, figure it out! Do what it ever it takes. Easy? hell no, that's why so few break through.

*** I regularly sell roll off containers to waste firms hauling from the recycling centre to the land fill. There's certainly an endless supply of plastic and no one seems to be doing anything with it now.....so yeah, big opportunity. Ask and answer why, then come up with workable alternative. (The cynical part of me (most of me) thinks the recycling industry is the "politician's making people feel good about themselves" industry. If you really want us to ease up on the planet and end up with us having a better lifestyle to boot, promote policies that will slow, then stop and reverse population growth, especially in high consumption nations)

adammil1 said:

That's pretty neat and some of that artwork looks great but seems impractical for the real issue at hand. Did you watch the promo video? They want nice clean washed plastic, with paper labels removed. Where are you getting that at any scale?

The real opportunity seems to be figuring out how to take bales by the truck load from the municipal plants and quickly process them into a real product and making lots of it since a product made from recycled junk probably isn't going to fetch that high of a premium.

I wonder how clean and well sorted those bales really are? I always wonder when I toss that ketchup bottle in the bin with a little still inside how and when does it get cleaned prior to reuse? At the sorting plant or at the factory who buys the scrap.

I guess the question is how does a little guy who recognizes a great opportunity figure out how to jump into one and get something working with little knowledge or experience in the industry? Where do you go to learn a whole new industry?


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I heard of a place down near Pizzaborg doing just that, IIRC now gone.

The person explaining it went down there, and wanted some simple parts made, he was not a
"Plastics person" by any means, nor even a machinist. But he described what he saw pretty good.

Small operation, melted most anything, extruded into fence posts.
Very DIY, not very efficient.

I saw a sample, it was horrible from a molding standpoint.
Segregation in the center, hollows, air bubbles, etc.

adammil1 said:

I wonder how clean and well sorted those bales really are? I always wonder when I toss that ketchup bottle in the bin with a little still inside how and when does it get cleaned prior to reuse? At the sorting plant or at the factory who buys the scrap.

Click to expand...

I suspect that no-one does much if any label/debris removal, and that is why most plastics are going to the land fill now that China won't take them.

With metals recycling, there is an efficient way to separate the junk from the metal. Once the metal melts, anything stuck to it has burnt off, and the ash is now floating on top.

With plastics, the melt temp is in a range that common stuff stuck to plastic (paper, glue, food, etc) doesn't melt or burn. I don't think there is a good way to separate stuff stuck to plastic. I suspect most of the plastic actually recycled is hand-sort, where anything that looks dirty is tossed. The rest is probably ground, washed with soap, and then separated in a water bath for sink/float separation of debris.

I'm curious how Coke goes about getting their supply of plastic for their "post-consumer" plastic bottles.

adamm said:

I'm curious how Coke goes about getting their supply of plastic for their "post-consumer" plastic bottles.

Click to expand...

They probably buy it.

adamm said:

I'm curious how Coke goes about getting their supply of plastic for their "post-consumer" plastic bottles.

Click to expand...

I bet it comes from the machines in the supermarkets in the bottle deposit states like here in Connecticut. There at least you know the plastic going into the bottle plastic was bottle plastic to begin with. I wonder how they handle the different colors like green vs brown, vs clear plastic.

It is the stuff that I left out at the curb that I really wonder about that I know is getting landfilled all over the place. The tomato sauce jar with a few teaspoons of tomato sauce still in it, same thing for the ketchup container, the mayo container. Add to that that there may be 3 types of other plastics mixed in there. I wonder if it can all be melted together into some sort of product that has a wider tolerance in the material properties. As I mentioned before I am pretty sure they make railroad ties out of municipal waste as well as Trex and some of the other composite plastics that are out there...

If I had more free time I would be tempted to try to play around with some of the stuff and see what can be done with it on a small scale.

I see one company that advertises in Live Steam magazine (ride on model trains) who makes plastic ties for model trains. Seems like that would be part of the trick to starting such a company. Find a less demanding smaller scale market (AKA hobbyists) to figure things out and buildout your processes. Learn what you are doing there before you try to play in the big leagues with the likes of trying to supply ties to the likes of Union Pacific. Other thoughts maybe find other products like flower pots or some other small stuff that you could really refine a process on prior to scaling way up.

Bobw said:

If you are the owner, and the main machinist.. No hire is going to match your output.. They don't
have the motivation, and they don't have the knowledge of your particular shop, and your particular
customers, and your particular choice of tooling and fixturing.

I had a skilled guy for a while, just a little part time gig for a while.. And it took some load off of me, but I was still stuck doing the shit I didn't want to do. I then got a completely unskilled person, that didn't cost as much.

But.. She does the shit I don't want to do. Top up coolant and waylube. Cut shit up.. Take shit out to the
dumpster. Now that my cleaning guy had a stroke, she sweeps, cleans the toilet, makes sure we don't run out of paper towels and shit paper. She cleans up after me, which is no small chore. Puts together job folders, makes copies of prints. Runs to the hardware store when I need something, or even a burrito run. Picks up and delivers parts and materials for me. Loads and un-loads my truck.. She's good to my dog (used to be dogs ). She goes out and gets the mail everyday, and picks up any packages at the post office. Pulls weeds in the yard, and trims THE TREE (Its New Mexico, I have an acre and A tree).

She runs parts, gets my tools in holders, changes vise jaws. FINDS the fixture I need that I can't find.. Deburrs parts, packs them up, washes them.

I didn't need a skilled person.. I needed an assistant, so I could do what *I* was good at..

Reading/writing all that.. I think I'm going to give her a raise tomorrow. I don't pay her badly for the area.. If I was she wouldn't still be here, coming up on 5 years. I didn't need skill. I needed a body that was willing to do stupid shit that I didn't want to do. And that sounds awful.. but its the truth.

And really one of the best things.. She's going to be here at 8am.. EVERY DAY. I *NEED* to be here at 8am. I can't show up at 9:30, and stare at the wall until noon. Just having *somebody* here is a big help, just from a mental standpoint. I worked all alone for way too long, and it sucked, and back then I had a business partner... Go figure?

So.. How much of a raise should she get? $1 or $2 an hour?

Click to expand...

That sounds like an excellent employee that frees up a LOT of your time.
Value that person highly, or someone else will. She may be your biggest asset.

“I believe the efforts that most big companies make to drive Internet visitors to a sales representative are largely self-defeating. They often don’t provide pricing, or even detailed product information without a registration of some sort being necessary. There are many folks, myself included, who are not interested in being pestered by a sales person unless I have already pretty much made a purchase decision.”

This is me everyday I have to get on the internet and look for items for projects my company is working on. I need to build a project budget based on item costs and everything else involved and the one thing that should be pretty solid is the material or parts to build cost. I leave websites the say call for quote or have the registration questionnaire.

Thank you for the write up you have done. I have started many side gigs, mostly related to hobbies I have that I could use my skills to generate a small extra income to support my hobby. I always had a dream that it may grow organically and I would have a thriving business. I found I lost interest after a few years in and unfortunately a couple times walked away from businesses that if I would have committed more to, had the potential to grow. I am currently in the infancy of a business that uses my skills and education. It is something I enjoy but I also can separate myself from as it is not a hobby. I have been able to get customers quickly and am running cash not debt on a budget so I don’t affect my families finances. I am able to keep my full time career posistion for benefits and retirement building while operating the side business. The goal is to grow and leave my regular job and go full time. I have found something many family members support and see the potential which significantly helps me keep going.

Mikehall1964 said:

“I believe the efforts that most big companies make to drive Internet visitors to a sales representative are largely self-defeating. They often don’t provide pricing, or even detailed product information without a registration of some sort being necessary. There are many folks, myself included, who are not interested in being pestered by a sales person unless I have already pretty much made a purchase decision.”

This is me everyday I have to get on the internet and look for items for projects my company is working on. I need to build a project budget based on item costs and everything else involved and the one thing that should be pretty solid is the material or parts to build cost. I leave websites the say call for quote or have the registration questionnaire.

Thank you for the write up you have done. I have started many side gigs, mostly related to hobbies I have that I could use my skills to generate a small extra income to support my hobby. I always had a dream that it may grow organically and I would have a thriving business. I found I lost interest after a few years in and unfortunately a couple times walked away from businesses that if I would have committed more to, had the potential to grow. I am currently in the infancy of a business that uses my skills and education. It is something I enjoy but I also can separate myself from as it is not a hobby. I have been able to get customers quickly and am running cash not debt on a budget so I don’t affect my families finances. I am able to keep my full time career posistion for benefits and retirement building while operating the side business. The goal is to grow and leave my regular job and go full time. I have found something many family members support and see the potential which significantly helps me keep going.

Click to expand...

Can you share any details about your new business operation?

mrplasma said:

Can you share any details about your new business operation?

Click to expand...

I have started a machine shop. I am small, one cnc vertical mill to start. I bought two but one was dropped in shipping so I have a spare parts machine now. I did get my money back on it as it is too far gone to invest in repairs. I could buy another used one for less than the parts and time I would have to put in to it. I also offer small assembly work. So far I am operating on zero debt, which is nice but I would like to have a newer machine or two and be able to stock up on a few more tools for the machine. I come from a background in engineering with manufacturing experience. Definitely a lot to learn but that is part of what keeps me going.

The plastic waste solution is with us now.......the oil that makes plastic also makes fuel.......simply burn the plastic......projected 360,000 tons/year.....and do you think the local people are in favour?

TaliaMccorkle said:

A bad product can't be created by people who don't have skills. If there is any technology, you need to finish the job, but most importantly do everything technologically correct.

Click to expand...

W-O-W your wisdom is simply amazing !

Booze Daily said:

Yep, sounds worthwhile. Just know that every shop has their own ways, so expect some push back.

Click to expand...

Yep, there will be. Maybe they should be forced to disclose their manpower/ footprint/ and rate of expansion per year; if they discount results achieved by the OP?

Bobw said:

If you are the owner, and the main machinist.. No hire is going to match your output.. They don't
have the motivation, and they don't have the knowledge of your particular shop, and your particular
customers, and your particular choice of tooling and fixturing.

I had a skilled guy for a while, just a little part time gig for a while.. And it took some load off of me, but I was still stuck doing the shit I didn't want to do. I then got a completely unskilled person, that didn't cost as much.

But.. She does the shit I don't want to do. Top up coolant and waylube. Cut shit up.. Take shit out to the
dumpster. Now that my cleaning guy had a stroke, she sweeps, cleans the toilet, makes sure we don't run out of paper towels and shit paper. She cleans up after me, which is no small chore. Puts together job folders, makes copies of prints. Runs to the hardware store when I need something, or even a burrito run. Picks up and delivers parts and materials for me. Loads and un-loads my truck.. She's good to my dog (used to be dogs ). She goes out and gets the mail everyday, and picks up any packages at the post office. Pulls weeds in the yard, and trims THE TREE (Its New Mexico, I have an acre and A tree).

She runs parts, gets my tools in holders, changes vise jaws. FINDS the fixture I need that I can't find.. Deburrs parts, packs them up, washes them.

I didn't need a skilled person.. I needed an assistant, so I could do what *I* was good at..

Reading/writing all that.. I think I'm going to give her a raise tomorrow. I don't pay her badly for the area.. If I was she wouldn't still be here, coming up on 5 years. I didn't need skill. I needed a body that was willing to do stupid shit that I didn't want to do. And that sounds awful.. but its the truth.

And really one of the best things.. She's going to be here at 8am.. EVERY DAY. I *NEED* to be here at 8am. I can't show up at 9:30, and stare at the wall until noon. Just having *somebody* here is a big help, just from a mental standpoint. I worked all alone for way too long, and it sucked, and back then I had a business partner... Go figure?

So.. How much of a raise should she get? $1 or $2 an hour?

Click to expand...

I'd rather such a "her" to any herd of mulleted self-appointed 'masheenists'. I'd also be exposing her to rudimentary operations, sounds as she's already got a handle on the vocabulary.
That Rosie Riveter mentality is way more prevalent than most of us realize. They have the initiative, lacking only the right spot to excersize it.

mrplasma said:

Can't disagree! I was definitely in the right place at the right time. I still think it is wise to avoid making major investments prematurely, whether for equipment or real estate. Proprietary parts, although costly to produce, do help avoid copycats. I appreciate your well thought-out input.

Click to expand...

How can I disagree with an agreement? While right place/ right time is the acceptable description, more a great case of the right product creating the right time.
I'LL be following MrPlasma's posts closely.
I too, in midst of creating a unique shop catering to a potential market "they" aren't aware of yet.
Admittedly, main factor is probably commitment; having full ownership of equipment, property and initiative.