Does a high wage employee bring more value to a company than multiple low wage employees?

michiganbuck · Nov 5, 2022

A job that one can master or make a profit after 15 minutes of instruction is a whole lot different than a job where the worker has to think and perform off some thought or pre-learned wisdom. One serious problem is that manufacturing products In a communist country have great advantages. It was that duties would even out the difference but under the table, secret benefits took place of fairness-placed duties The skilled USA machinist has to compete in a world economy, and most other jobs compete in a local economy.

alek95 · Nov 5, 2022

Orange Vise said:
People get paid for their output, not their skill level.

Personally I haven't seen much of a correlation between a worker's productivity and their wages. Everywhere I look, it's the same it seems.

The machinist at my job that gets paid $30/hr is much more productive than the machinist that gets paid $20. Produces double more parts, less scrap, has a much better attitude, and is eager to do whatever it takes when we have a hot job. Also the other coworkers like working with him and he takes care of the equipment and tools.

His wages are 50% higher, but the value to the company is much more than 50% greater I think (from my perspective as a coworker).

Also at my night job. There are multiple part time programmers. Lowest gets paid $20 and highest is around $30.

The lowest paid guy doesn't know any CAM, and refuses to even learn how to use eDrawings to get a dimension.

He recently billed 20 hours on a job that would take most programmers 3-4 hours max.

So why wouldn't a business owner want to exclusively hire and retain high value guys? Why even deal with low value guys?

Orange Vise · Nov 5, 2022

alek95 said:
The machinist at my job that gets paid $30/hr is much more productive than the machinist that gets paid $20. Produces double more parts, less scrap, has a much better attitude, and is eager to do whatever it takes when we have a hot job.

Not sure how your companies are structured, but it's a little odd to have that much of a wage gap between people with the same job function.

Typically, you have Operator, Setup, and Programmer, with multiple levels at each. Can't really compare output of an Operator Level I to a Setup Level II, as the duties aren't the same. Comparisons need to be oranges to oranges (see what I did there?). Smaller organizations might not have so many levels, but the general idea is the same.

alek95 said:
So why wouldn't a business owner want to exclusively hire and retain high value guys? Why even deal with low value guys?

Higher level employees, e.g. programmers, need to be able to finish their programs and depending on the organization, setup and run a first article. Then hand it off to the operator. Programmers aren't paid to be operators. They can oversee the production, but they shouldn't be handling every part.

alek95 said:
The lowest paid guy doesn't know any CAM, and refuses to even learn how to use eDrawings to get a dimension.

What do you mean refuses? He doesn't take the advice of fellow employees or disobeys management?

MaxPrairie · Nov 5, 2022

Someone else had mentioned it depends on the shop and work. I would agree with that. For me running very little production, it is nice to have a higher paid guy that can do everything and ask few to no questions. Here's are the prints, material is on the rack, let me know when you need more to do. I used to have more employees (lower paid) and it seemed like my whole day was getting pulled aside to answer questions. I would rather spend the majority of my time being left alone and focusing on what I am doing.

Jaxian · Nov 6, 2022

Wow is this thread production oriented. It's like people have never heard about one off, R&D and jobs that are mostly trouble shooting. Good luck getting a no talent slug to solve any problems, take initiative, or drive a job over the sticking points to completion. How about working unsupervised, not bringing all their problems to me, fixing mistakes before they happen?

This thread reads like half the people can't imagine work outside of "insert material, press the green button" production work.

As an aside the "trait" of people who do their job as they should is well known as one of the Big 5 traits. It's Conscientiousness (organization, productiveness, responsibility). You would really like this in an employee.

For more info. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/big-5-personality-traits

john.k · Nov 6, 2022

My experience is a boss/manager by chance gets a top guy......guy runs his own job without referring to management,he helps others do their jobs ,he make a good atmosphere in the shop.......boss/manager begins to fret .....he starts to interfere in small things to assert his authority.......next come a major blow up with the guy ......boss is like a dog with a dead skunk ...he cant leave it alone or move on........it eats him up ,he rides the guy ,guy quits .....boss is "I told you so ....he was unreliable"

SND · Nov 6, 2022

I learned long ago that most employers in this trade don't so much pay what you're worth, as it pays what you're willing to work for. Then they wonder why the good guys keep leaving, and why customers keep complaining about shitty parts.

DouglasJRizzo · Nov 6, 2022

Fact is, you get what you pay for. Whether it's tools, CNC's, or employees.
If you want an employee that you can leave with the "keys to the store" you're going to have to pay them, and pay them very well. Production, or one off's, it's going to cost and cost a lot.

Simple economics.

DDoug · Nov 6, 2022

DouglasJRizzo said:
Fact is, you get what you pay for. Whether it's tools, CNC's, or employees.
If you want an employee that you can leave with the "keys to the store" you're going to have to pay them, and pay them very well. Production, or one off's, it's going to cost and cost a lot.

Simple economics.

A high wage employee can out produce others & drive your business forward only if:
1. You give them the tools they need.
2. You give them the right to doo it. (management always shooting down the employees ideas/methods for no good reason)

triumph406 · Nov 6, 2022

alek95 said:
So why wouldn't a business owner want to exclusively hire and retain high value guys? Why even deal with low value guys?

One problem is there isn't an infinite number of highly skilled and productive people out there in the job market.

And even if you did find these unicorns and could fill a shop with them, your problems have not ended. Among that group there will be, the one who can't get to work on time. Can't keep off his cellphone. Can't work well with others. comes in drunk. dissapears every few weeks on a meth binge, steals tools, has problems with the law etc etc

empower · Nov 6, 2022

Orange Vise said:
If only it were that simple.

Not a fan of this term. It gets tossed around on social media way too often and needs to die.

People get paid for their output, not their skill level. Can a skilled employee with double the pay produce twice as much? Maybe, but it's far from guaranteed. And even if they do, that doesn't make them a rockstar. They're just doing their job.

Don't paint yourself into a corner by relying so heavily on people. People understandably need to do what's best for themselves and their families, and sometimes that doesn't align with your goals. This doesn't mean you shouldn't try to hire the best people you can, just that you should expect things to be way more complex than the way you described it in your OP.

in a purely production environment, absolutely. in an environment where there's opportunity for someone smart/skilled to make a big change in a process etc - you're deff gonna pay for someone's skill/experience, which will down the road result in more output.

standardparts · Nov 6, 2022

It's likely if your laying the groundwork for success you staff your enterprise with the same parameters as the facility and machines you budget for the segment of business you wish to serve.
No doubt everyone(?) seeks bragging rights to best and the brightest in machines in staff, but often times just 'good enough' is a consideration if you want to stay in business.

latheman78 · Nov 6, 2022

It all depends on your business. If you are doing tool room, prototype, or short runs, you better have a high percentage of rock stars. Long run production shop or an OEM can usually get away with a high percentage of bums.

Comatose · Nov 6, 2022

Jaxian said:
Wow is this thread production oriented. It's like people have never heard about one off, R&D and jobs that are mostly trouble shooting. Good luck getting a no talent slug to solve any problems, take initiative, or drive a job over the sticking points to completion. How about working unsupervised, not bringing all their problems to me, fixing mistakes before they happen?

This thread reads like half the people can't imagine work outside of "insert material, press the green button" production work.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Nobody here is gonna suggest that programmers should be paid like setup people should be paid like operators.

The question is "does a higher paid guy outproduce a lower paid guy" within the same job. Maybe, but it isn't a given.

Think about it this way. If you put an ad out saying "hiring CNC operators. Air conditioned shop, first shift, no overtime, no programming or setup required. $100 an hour" you will get every operator within two hours drive applying. Some are going to be excellent. Some are going to be the guys who are overpaid even if they worked for free.

If you're looking for plug-and-go guys, rather than training someone, pay sets a ceiling on productivity to some degree. You won't get a genuinely top guy for genuinely poor pay. What it does NOT do is set a floor on productivity. Paying top dollar in no way assures the guy you hire is going to give you top results. That's up to you.

DDoug · Nov 6, 2022

Jaxian said:
Wow is this thread production oriented. It's like people have never heard about one off, R&D and jobs that are mostly trouble shooting. Good luck getting a no talent slug to solve any problems, take initiative, or drive a job over the sticking points to completion. How about working unsupervised, not bringing all their problems to me, fixing mistakes before they happen?

This thread reads like half the people can't imagine work outside of "insert material, press the green button" production work.

As an aside the "trait" of people who do their job as they should is well known as one of the Big 5 traits. It's Conscientiousness (organization, productiveness, responsibility). You would really like this in an employee.

For more info. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/big-5-personality-traits

W-O-W are you assuming way way too much.
I am exactly what you say this topic has not touched on.
One off, never the same. Creative, and always trying to find a better way.
So now YOU want to lump us into qty (5) categories ?

john.k · Nov 6, 2022

I was the first human point of contact for new starts...in the office they were given a whole lot of papers to sign and a 15 minute induction video.....anyhoo,next to me for their workclothes and safety gear....actually second hand clothes Col got from the industrial laundry..........but fit for purpose.........I used to say ....you ll go OK here if you keep your eyes open, mouth shut ,and head down..........one guy says to me "Do you have a suggestion box".......one smart arse (he had a degree in something useless) says he wants to participate in worker management consultation......No ,and No..

William Payne · Nov 7, 2022

In my experience as an employee and seeing how hiring practices go down, a massive mistake businesses make is hiring skilled workers for low skilled jobs. They will tell the applicant in the interview everything they want to hear to get them to take the job and may even pay well but the level of work the applicant winds up doing can leave them greatly dissatisfied and actually cause more problems.

I have always said, if you want to hire someone and all you want them to do is clean the toilets. You hire someone under the pretense that that is what they will be there for. Don't feed someone a bunch of garbage to get them in the door because you are that desperate for workers.

Its like in school where you have the student who finishes his work early, gets bored and bothers the rest of the class.

It is far better based on what I have seen as a worker on the floor to have workers who are enthusiastic about what they are doing.

john.k · Nov 7, 2022

Bosses and managers like to play mind games ,and employees are a captive victim pool.

eKretz · Nov 7, 2022

So here's my take. A "high wage" employee should bring more value than a low wage one, or he oughtn't be a high wage employee. And whether you should hire one or the other is really dependent on the type of work done in your shop and the level of supervision you want the employee to work under. In a larger shop I think it would be good to have a mix... Lower wage guys for the grunt work that's basic stuff and doesn't require much thinking. Higher wage guys for supervision and/or higher grade work.

ironE · Nov 7, 2022

Most employers that I have worked for always seem to have some "bums" as part of the team.
It seemed they were there to give management something to complain about on a daily basis.
You can always blame it on the whip dog and if they are picking on them they are leaving everyone else alone.

Does a high wage employee bring more value to a company than multiple low wage employees?

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