OT: Is technology slowing things down?

Thunderjet · Nov 20, 2022

gustafson said:
requiring ID is a sideways way of limiting legal participation, and everyone knows it.

So there is a "sideways way" of keeping certain folks from:
Entering a courthouse.
Accessing a school.
Getting on a commercial aircraft.
Opening a bank account.
Driving a car.
Registering a firearm.
Wow........lots of folks getting "limited legal participation" that government decided was ok up until now.

And, NO. Everyone doesn't know it.

mhajicek · Nov 20, 2022

Thunderjet said:
Paramilitary?
What is it with the hate filled rhetoric that surrounds the police nowadays?

Who are you going to call when your house is broken into at 3:00am?

If you are in certain jurisdictions in my state, the H.P. are the ONLY folks that can get there quickly.

If you're willing to wait for half an hour, then you call the sheriff's dept.

Your phone should be the SECOND thing you reach for in that situation. The cops will arrive in time to file the paperwork.

gustafson · Nov 21, 2022

SeymourDumore said:
Everyone knows requiring an photo ID at voting is the very least one can do to verify eligibility.
Everyone also knows that requiring a photo ID is NOT an effort to limit legal participation.

But by all means, keep stirring ...

Deny the obvious all you want
So Republicans pushed to overturn votes in their favor too, right?

gustafson · Nov 21, 2022

Thunderjet said:
So there is a "sideways way" of keeping certain folks from:
Entering a courthouse.
Accessing a school.
Getting on a commercial aircraft.
Opening a bank account.
Driving a car.
Registering a firearm.
Wow........lots of folks getting "limited legal participation" that government decided was ok up until now.

And, NO. Everyone doesn't know it.

This means what?
The right wing has done all those things for years, against minorities, is that what you are speaking of?

gustafson · Nov 21, 2022

Thunderjet said:
Paramilitary?
What is it with the hate filled rhetoric that surrounds the police nowadays?

Who are you going to call when your house is broken into at 3:00am?

If you are in certain jurisdictions in my state, the H.P. are the ONLY folks that can get there quickly.

If you're willing to wait for half an hour, then you call the sheriff's dept.

It is not hate to understand how local control works
IT has good possibilities and bad possibilities

Scottl · Nov 21, 2022

gustafson said:
And you ignore the relevant text
The RMV, MassHealth, and Health Connector collect information about lawful presence in the United States and they will not submit names to local election officials of any persons they have determined are not U.S. citizens.

Scott, you need to do better, funny how you leave out the one line that confirms what I have been saying all along

What you keep referencing are the public statements. The real meat is in the relevant laws and the post where I listed all of them and the actual wording shows that some categories of illegal aliens WILL be automatically registered.

Also, AFAIK all those statements saying only citizens can be registered to vote were created well BEFORE the recently approved referendum that will give licenses to border jumpers.

Scottl · Nov 21, 2022

dcsipo said:
This is not Faux news you cannot cherry pick your facts buddy

"If you are not a citizen, you are not eligible to vote and you should opt out. The RMV, MassHealth, and Health Connector collect information about lawful presence in the United States and they will not submit names to local election officials of any persons they have determined are not U.S. citizens."

If you fail to opt-out, you will be reported and most likely get in trouble with the law. If you are an undocumented alien, the last thing you want is an encounter with the law; it gets you f'n deported. Ya'll think like a criminal if you think that an undocumented will take risks just to take up some real estate in your brain.

BTW you get to the site that you think is registering illegals form here:

Automatic Voter Registration:
If you are a U.S. citizen applying for or renewing a driver's license or state ID at the RMV, or applying for health insurance through MassHealth or the Commonwealth Health Connector, you will be automatically registered to vote, unless you opt out of registering.

If you opt out of registering to vote, or if your citizenship has not been confirmed by the RMV, MassHealth, or the Health Connector, you will not be registered to vote. If you do not opt out and your citizenship is confirmed, your name, address, and date of birth will be sent to your local election official to be added to the voter list and you will receive mailed confirmation of your registration within 2-3 weeks.

Learn more about automatic voter registration.

See what I just wrote in response to gustafson's similar statement.

Those internet pronouncements are not the law, and the actual laws indicate that some illegals WILL be automatically registered unless they CHOOSE to opt out.

This is a classic politician's trick, to make pronouncements that sound fine while passing laws with all kinds of loopholes.

Scottl · Nov 21, 2022

Thunderjet said:
Paramilitary?
What is it with the hate filled rhetoric that surrounds the police nowadays?

Who are you going to call when your house is broken into at 3:00am?

If you are in certain jurisdictions in my state, the H.P. are the ONLY folks that can get there quickly.

If you're willing to wait for half an hour, then you call the sheriff's dept.

It's not hate filled rhetoric. I've known lots of cops, including some state troopers. While many are very fine people, for a lot of situations municipal police are better, including the fact that local police can be here in minutes whereas the state police would have to drive down crowded highways and then slog through local traffic.

We have over 50,000 people in my community and a large local police force. In medical emergencies they often arrive before the EMTs and assist as necessary. I well understand that the situation in remote rural areas is different and in those cases the state police are often the best first responders.

My comment re them being a paramilitary organization is based on fact. The intensive training, similar to elite military units weeds out lesser individuals. Many who qualify for local PD couldn't cut it. And what many don't know is that state police organizations would function as a sort of state militia in the event of invasion or insurrection. The Texas Rangers actually started as a militia.

DrHook · Nov 21, 2022

gustafson said:
I have a glass door with a lock on it.
There is no fraud problem in Mass, requiring ID is a sideways way of limiting legal participation, and everyone knows it. That is why a party that represents a minority opinion pushes it constantly
Again, no fraud no problems, just people to pretend their guy won when he didn't

Explain how a photo id is a "sideways way of limiting legal participation", as everybody ain't everybody without me, and I don't personally know how it can be difficult to get one, or how having one "limits" anyone. It has never been explained clearly, anywhere. I grew up a dirt poor nobody from nowhere, and have had a photo id since I was 14.
And then, instead of claiming one party wants it to "limit", explain why one party wants to "expand".

dcsipo · Nov 21, 2022

Scottl said:
See what I just wrote in response to gustafson's similar statement.

Those internet pronouncements are not the law, and the actual laws indicate that some illegals WILL be automatically registered unless they CHOOSE to opt out.

This is a classic politician's trick, to make pronouncements that sound fine while passing laws with all kinds of loopholes.

You cannot be this dense

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:52%20section:10307%20edition:prelim)

Quote the actual law that allows Illegals to vote,

gustafson · Nov 21, 2022

DrHook said:
Explain how a photo id is a "sideways way of limiting legal participation", as everybody ain't everybody without me, and I don't personally know how it can be difficult to get one, or how having one "limits" anyone. It has never been explained clearly, anywhere. I grew up a dirt poor nobody from nowhere, and have had a photo id since I was 14.
And then, instead of claiming one party wants it to "limit", explain why one party wants to "expand".

Why would you not want everyone who is able to vote to vote?
One reason
You fear what they would vote for

gustafson · Nov 21, 2022

Scottl said:
What you keep referencing are the public statements. The real meat is in the relevant laws and the post where I listed all of them and the actual wording shows that some categories of illegal aliens WILL be automatically registered.

Also, AFAIK all those statements saying only citizens can be registered to vote were created well BEFORE the recently approved referendum that will give licenses to border jumpers.

You have posted no facts
Period
Only your fears
The statement, in writing, of the person who runs the elections is more persuasive than your assumptions

dcsipo · Nov 21, 2022

DrHook said:
Explain how a photo id is a "sideways way of limiting legal participation", as everybody ain't everybody without me, and I don't personally know how it can be difficult to get one, or how having one "limits" anyone. It has never been explained clearly, anywhere. I grew up a dirt poor nobody from nowhere, and have had a photo id since I was 14.
And then, instead of claiming one party wants it to "limit", explain why one party wants to "expand".

Are you familiar with the concept of poll tax? Since you cannot get a photo ID for free, it is a poll tax. https://mva.maryland.gov/about-mva/Pages/fees.aspx. In Maryland, the cheapest you can get an ID is $1 if you are homeless and $24 if you are not. Put that in perspective with the minimum wage. You must work 1.97 hours for the "right" to vote if you require a photo ID. Since election day is not a federal holiday, you must take time off work to vote on election day. The poorer you are, the more burdensome voting is. And since poor folk tends to vote Democrat, the GOP hates them passionately.

In conclusion, if you require a photo ID to vote, make at least one of them free, if you want people to show up at the polls on election day, make it a holiday, but the GOP will fight both measures.

Ox · Nov 21, 2022

Thunderjet said:
Paramilitary?
What is it with the hate filled rhetoric that surrounds the police nowadays?

Who are you going to call when your house is broken into at 3:00am?

If you are in certain jurisdictions in my state, the H.P. are the ONLY folks that can get there quickly.

If you're willing to wait for half an hour, then you call the sheriff's dept.

I have never been in this situation, and I ass_u_me that this is a loaded question, but my best guess would be a call to the County Coroner?

-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

DrHook · Nov 21, 2022

dcsipo said:
Are you familiar with the concept of poll tax? Since you cannot get a photo ID for free, it is a poll tax. https://mva.maryland.gov/about-mva/Pages/fees.aspx. In Maryland, the cheapest you can get an ID is $1 if you are homeless and $24 if you are not. Put that in perspective with the minimum wage. You must work 1.97 hours for the "right" to vote if you require a photo ID. Since election day is not a federal holiday, you must take time off work to vote on election day. The poorer you are, the more burdensome voting is. And since poor folk tends to vote Democrat, the GOP hates them passionately.

In conclusion, if you require a photo ID to vote, make at least one of them free, if you want people to show up at the polls on election day, make it a holiday, but the GOP will fight both measures.

OK, I never heard of that, (even though it's somewhat of a stretch) so I'll bite.... how does one prove they are a legal citizen, and 18 years of age without some form of ID?

DrHook · Nov 21, 2022

gustafson said:
Why would you not want everyone who is able to vote to vote?
One reason
You fear what they would vote for

Just as I suspected.

Ries · Nov 21, 2022

DrHook said:
OK, I never heard of that, (even though it's somewhat of a stretch) so I'll bite.... how does one prove they are a legal citizen, and 18 years of age without some form of ID?

you can get a copy of your birth certificate mailed to you for free.
But the cheapest photo ID you can get where I live, in Washington State, is the DOL issued ID card, which is not a drivers license.
Nine bucks a year.
Same as a drivers license.

A passport, which is also acceptable photo ID, costs $165.
I dont know of any free photo ID, except maybe military ID, which is sorta free, if you have a few years to spare to get it.

dcsipo · Nov 21, 2022

DrHook said:
OK, I never heard of that, (even though it's somewhat of a stretch) so I'll bite.... how does one prove they are a legal citizen, and 18 years of age without some form of ID?

Same as getting your first picture ID.

dcsipo · Nov 21, 2022

Ries said:
you can get a copy of your birth certificate mailed to you for free.
But the cheapest photo ID you can get where I live, in Washington State, is the DOL issued ID card, which is not a drivers license.
Nine bucks a year.
Same as a drivers license.

A passport, which is also acceptable photo ID, costs $165.
I dont know of any free photo ID, except maybe military ID, which is sorta free, if you have a few years to spare to get it.

If you work for the government, you get a PIV for free. But it requires multiple forms of IDs to get started.

Ox · Nov 21, 2022

Ries said:
you can get a copy of your birth certificate mailed to you for free.
But the cheapest photo ID you can get where I live, in Washington State, is the DOL issued ID card, which is not a drivers license.
Nine bucks a year.
Same as a drivers license.

A passport, which is also acceptable photo ID, costs $165.
I dont know of any free photo ID, except maybe military ID, which is sorta free, if you have a few years to spare to get it.

If you lose your original birth cert and/or your S/S card, IDK how you would prove who you are - short of getting kin with good docs to verify who you are. If I can mail order my own Birth Cert, I'm guessing that anyone else can mail order my Birth Cert as well?

I live outside of a one stop-light black dot on the road map. Not much concern that the folks at the polling place don't know who I am when I walk through the door, but these days they need my Drivers Licence for the scan and whatnot. But then they want me to sign in, and they give me this glass covered gizmo and a limp dick eraser to write with. My handwriting sucks on a good day, but I see no way that you could ever compare THAT to a real sig and say if it was Kosher or not?

I'm for in person voting. Y';all can scream loudly the other direction, but at the end of the day your scream is only as loud as my whisper if the votes are counted correctly.

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

OT: Is technology slowing things down?

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