small batch casings, cost effective?

im looking at making/stocking a replcement part products, they are cast housing products, i can make from billet if needed, but im wondering the feasability vs small batched of castings. nothing needs to be crazy accurate, just a casting that i can machine a few features too.
is 30-50 pc castings feasable?
4 aluminum products
2 steel products

alm
15" dia x 2.5 tall casting material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
15" dia x3.5 tall casting material is approx 2% of would be billet volume
5" dia x 2.5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
5" dia x 2.5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume.
steel
6" dia x 5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
10dia x 5 3/4 tall material is approx 15% of would be billet volume, this one is a bit mre complicated casting as it hase a void inside, see photo
the other castings are do in mybackyard simple, but im not gonna do that!

im sure they are simple for someone that deals with it everyday, but i never request castings so ill lean on your learned experiences for help (thanks!)
theres many ways to skin a cat, im always from billet but i think this job will b ebetter off cast.
Any considerations im not thinking about? should knows? money saving tips?
i can send cad with draft angles, i could 3d print oversized(for shrinkage) parts and they could pound sand around/into them. i dunno, im casting clueless!


and lastly, any recomended casting houses? preferably in canada?

Probably get more answers if you lose the word billet, since you don't know what it means.

Duh billet aluminum, it's stronger and tougher than aircraft grade milspec material.

tdmidget said:

Probably get more answers if you lose the word billet, since you don't know what it means.

Click to expand...

Sections of bar stock are not billets?
I sure hope I have not been mis-gendering my barstock the last 20 years……..

I could help you with aluminum and Steel foundries in here in Ontario no idea about any aluminum foundries in AB. I do have a customer that sent a steel pattern we made to a foundry out there I will look them up.

Is that 30-50 castings per part? Is this likely to be a repeat order?

The part shown will need a corebox. FDM 3d printed patterns need a lot of hand sanding to smooth them out. Every line in the part is a gripper to keep the sand in the mould. We mostly cnc cut patterns out of renshape wood or aluminum. We have a filament printer and have subbed out binder jet printing for certain parts and for most things we have found Subtractive manufacturing more efficient than additive for most patternmaking.

For 30-50 parts most foundries will want the pattern either mounted on a matchplate or on cope and drag plates with moulding boxes, depending on the foundry. Mostly Green sand foundries will want matchplates for those sizes, and no bake foundries will want cope and drag boards with boxes. 30-50 is not a lot for automatic moulding machines but for the aluminum parts the foundries I work with would probably run the larger on automatics. The tooling costs are higher but the casting prices are lower and with the current labour shortages the more they can run on automatics the better.

Do the Steel castings need to be steel? Ductile will be less than half the price and likely close in strength. Grey will be a nicer casting cosmetically, WAY less risers needed cheaper still and vibration dampening etc.

Stirling said:

Sections of bar stock are not billets?
I sure hope I have not been mis-gendering my barstock the last 20 years……..

Click to expand...

You have , apparently. A billet ( it is an object, not a material, is a casting for rolling or in the case of aluminum, extruding with a cross section of not more than 36 square inches. Your bar stock was extruded from billets. The extrusion process gave it a grain structure and made it machinable. The billet had no grain structure and was likely not at all machinable, about like bubble gum.

tdmidget said:

You have , apparently. A billet ( it is an object, not a material, is a casting for rolling or in the case of aluminum, extruding with a cross section of not more than 36 square inches. Your bar stock was extruded from billets. The extrusion process gave it a grain structure and made it machinable. The billet had no grain structure and was likely not at all machinable, about like bubble gum

Click to expand...

So barstock is formed from a billet. Therefor is not longer billet?
Paint me stupid then! Ha.
Guess I’ll have to stop using that term then. Unless it’s to motorcycle friends of course…

Stirling said:

So barstock is formed from a billet. Therefor is not longer billet?
Paint me stupid then! Ha.
Guess I’ll have to stop using that term then. Unless it’s to motorcycle friends of course…

Click to expand...

Car/truck people love it too

Stirling said:

im looking at making/stocking a replcement part products, they are cast housing products, i can make from billet if needed, but im wondering the feasability vs small batched of castings. nothing needs to be crazy accurate, just a casting that i can machine a few features too.
is 30-50 pc castings feasable?
4 aluminum products
2 steel products

alm
15" dia x 2.5 tall casting material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
15" dia x3.5 tall casting material is approx 2% of would be billet volume
5" dia x 2.5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
5" dia x 2.5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume.
steel
6" dia x 5" tall material is approx 30% of would be billet volume
10dia x 5 3/4 tall material is approx 15% of would be billet volume, this one is a bit mre complicated casting as it hase a void inside, see photo
the other castings are do in mybackyard simple, but im not gonna do that!

im sure they are simple for someone that deals with it everyday, but i never request castings so ill lean on your learned experiences for help (thanks!)
theres many ways to skin a cat, im always from billet but i think this job will b ebetter off cast.
Any considerations im not thinking about? should knows? money saving tips?
i can send cad with draft angles, i could 3d print oversized(for shrinkage) parts and they could pound sand around/into them. i dunno, im casting clueless!


and lastly, any recomended casting houses? preferably in canada?

Click to expand...

Real easy.
Do a 'net search 'foundries Alberta Canada'
Ask for a quote...attach your drawing-details of part.
Have patience and wait for a response which you may, or may not get.
If your lucky and someone is interested in doing the work for you, all you need to do is ask questions...you know what you need and if they want your money they will figure a way to do it.

If you can't find a place in Canada check with the people at the link below. They work well with small or large jobs. They work with all types of metal and casting processes. If they are unable to accommodate you, ask, and they will probably suggest someone who can.


Comment: A few years ago needed some investment castings done. Already had the mold to cast the wax. Knew nothing about the process.
Only needed 100 pieces--8620 steel casting. Checked with some people who supposedly knew how to get it done and was told..."good luck" "order too small", or "not many foundries left in the U.S." ...that sorta bullshit.

Drew a circle on a map and went for listings 100 miles of my location in SE Wisconsin. Plenty of foundries. (so much for we don't do that in the U.S.) Email out about 25 RFQ's. Got about a dozen solid responses with pricing all over the place.
The place in Milwaukee I linked replied, said they quoted the job with the proviso "subject to mold approval. Actually ran the mold up to the place for a look-see. Mold was a go and I got my castings.
Moral of the story...if you want to hear it...is about the worse that can happen by submitting RFQ's is that you have to endure rejection and snarky comments. Like I said, search for foundries near you, submit a RFQ, and if they say they can't do it ask if they know someone who can.

It’s been long enough that I don’t have any contacts, but I’ve done a few parts in castings between grapefruit and basketball sized. The quantity at which it became cheaper to cast than machine vs. machine from solid was a remarkably small number each time. Small as in under a dozen. These were always fairly hollow parts. I imagine it wouldn’t be as economical if the part were fairly solid.

Nothing in AB - But I have dealt with foundries in Minnesota. St. Paul Brass and aluminum are great to deal with for low Qty castings. Craft Pattern in Montrose does/did aluminum castings and can make your patterns if needed.

Sterling,
I bought small numbers of smallish casting from The Henry Perkins Foundry in New England. They have been in business since like 1850. Castings quality was always very good. I had nothing to do with the pattern making end of things. The work came from Sylvania back when we were allowed to make light bulbs in America. Perkins had the a lot of their patterns. The price was always fair and the lead time was decent as well. You can find them on the web.
spaeth