We need a lot more of this in the US; what is your state doing?

dcsipo · Nov 30, 2022

Just popped up in my mailbox.

A Story of Student-Run Manufacturing Enterprises

National Manufacturing Day (MFG Day) provides students, parents and communities a glimpse of modern manufacturing.

www.nist.gov

Here is what I found in MD.

Maryland Industrial Partnerships (MIPS)

mips.umd.edu

Not the same but some of you in MD may benefit from it.

DDoug · Nov 30, 2022

Cheap labor.
using taxpayer funded facilities (that don't pay any local taxes)
to compete with local MFG that do have to pay taxes.

jaguar36 · Nov 30, 2022

DDoug said:
Cheap labor.
using taxpayer funded facilities (that don't pay any local taxes)
to compete with local MFG that do have to pay taxes.

If you're having difficulty competing with a bunch of high school kids, even if they aren't paying taxes, I don't think the program is the issue.

DDoug · Nov 30, 2022

jaguar36 said:
If you're having difficulty competing with a bunch of high school kids, even if they aren't paying taxes, I don't think the program is the issue.

I'm not.
However wages have remained stagnate in the machining and tool & die industry here.

The program is the issue when they underbid every local shop as their cost's
are all paid for by taxpayers.

Bill D · Nov 30, 2022

California prisons used to make all the wooden teacher desks for the high schools. probably other school furniture as well. They do still have prison teams to fight forest fires.
Bill D.

dcsipo · Nov 30, 2022

DDoug said:
I'm not.
However wages have remained stagnate in the machining and tool & die industry here.

The program is the issue when they underbid every local shop as their cost's
are all paid for by taxpayers.

Hmm. Need to look into that. I am not certain that they will ever be at the scale to create real-world competition, and not sure that they will underbid the jobs. But the point may be valid. The article doe not seem to focus on economics, just the educational value.

jim rozen · Nov 30, 2022

"using taxpayer funded facilities (that don't pay any local taxes)...."

Taxes. Boo hoo hoo. Your focus is getting tiresome.

New machinists getting trained! (but not with YOUR money.... can't be!)

RC Mech · Nov 30, 2022

This is some of what this trade needs. In my experience with lacklustre programs that were poorly executed in my region, these “shops” do not represent competition. They’re training exercises. Anyone who seeks even mildly complex parts on reasonable deadlines will be disappointed. The work these facilities get is work you wouldn’t want to do at the prices the customer wants to beat you down to.

DDoug · Nov 30, 2022

jim rozen said:
"using taxpayer funded facilities (that don't pay any local taxes)...."

Taxes. Boo hoo hoo. Your focus is getting tiresome.

New machinists getting trained! (but not with YOUR money.... can't be!

you just can't see the other side of any debate, so you simply whine.

dcsipo · Nov 30, 2022

RC Mech said:
This is some of what this trade needs. In my experience with lacklustre programs that were poorly executed in my region, these “shops” do not represent competition. They’re training exercises. Anyone who seeks even mildly complex parts on reasonable deadlines will be disappointed. The work these facilities get is work you wouldn’t want to do at the prices the customer wants to beat you down to.

Is it not the goal to train them not to disappoint? But, if you are a business and you source titanium rocket parts from one of these places, well, that is on you

standardparts · Nov 30, 2022

Shop classes were part of high schools until some years ago when school boards decided that students would all be better off with four years of college.
Resulted in some good buys on lathes, mills, wood working, and sheet metal equipment as shop space was cleared for other purposes.
So now new programs with high tech sounding names, but pretty much the same shop classes as years ago, but with re-badging and tech upgrades. Good gig for machinists who acquire some type of equivalency teaching certificate---same as years ago.

No doubt the numbers of participants who go on into related trades are no different from years ago. Probably hard to determine actual numbers but at least "shop classes" offer exposure to the machinist trades.

CAMasochism · Nov 30, 2022

standardparts said:
Shop classes were part of high schools until some years ago when school boards decided that students would all be better off with four years of college.

I think a bigger part of that is schools not wanting to deal with the liability and insurance of a student getting hurt. These days everyone expects that everything should be 1000% safe and never any danger.

standardparts · Nov 30, 2022

CAMasochism said:
I think a bigger part of that is schools not wanting to deal with the liability and insurance of a student getting hurt. These days everyone expects that everything should be 1000% safe and never any danger.

"Liability and insurance" often cited for disbanding shop classes....and then expanding funding for high school CONTACT injury producing sports like football.
My opinion....Best way to efficiently involve students in the trades is for business, unions, and industry to expand apprentice programs. IBEW and Operating Engineers (construction) in some states do a great job.
Of course, in regards to expanding the numbers of machinists and manufacturing professionals in the U.S. it does little good when work continues to get outsourced overseas. Only need so many prototype chip makers before you send the sample out for quote.
So the conundrum-----without some type of trade controls (tariffs?) why bother to produce human capitol for industries who need export work to take advantage cheap labor to survive?

jim rozen · Nov 30, 2022

"you just can't see the other side of any debate..."

You're not 'debating,' you're simply doing the monotonus one-line knee jerk response. OOOh, my MONEY.

jaguar36 · Nov 30, 2022

We didn't have one of these fancy programs in my high school, and unfortunately the metal shop closed a couple of years before I got there. Wood shop though was not only the most enjoyable class I had in high school, but the most useful as well. Not only did I learn alot of useful math, but I learned how to use tools, read plans, how important order of operations is and how to think in three dimensions. Even if folks are going to go be accountants or lawyers or whatever, they will likely still own a home and alot of those skills will come in very handy. As a bonus I made some nice furniture that I still use today.

Intrestingly, I've been looking at schools for my kids now, and the only one with a shop class is the fancy private school.

TeachMePlease · Nov 30, 2022

CAMasochism said:
I think a bigger part of that is schools not wanting to deal with the liability and insurance of a student getting hurt. These days everyone expects that everything should be 1000% safe and never any danger.

I hate to say it... But in today's litigious society, I don't think you could pay me enough to be responsible for a classroom of high school kids around manual equipment. I know how much I screwed around in high school, and i was one of the GOOD kids.

standardparts · Nov 30, 2022

jim rozen said:
"you just can't see the other side of any debate..."

You're not 'debating,' you're simply doing the monotonus one-line knee jerk response. OOOh, my MONEY.

'Ya just need to look around and look beyond school system.......taxes go to support non-profit schools that don't pay taxes---and add-- my taxes go to support non-tax paying multi-billion dollar corporations--that pay very little or no taxes.

dcsipo · Nov 30, 2022

TeachMePlease said:
I hate to say it... But in today's litigious society, I don't think you could pay me enough to be responsible for a classroom of high school kids around manual equipment. I know how much I screwed around in high school, and i was one of the GOOD kids.

Hence the idea of taking this out of the schools into a more industrial setting might solve that problem.

Alloy Mcgraw · Nov 30, 2022

jim rozen said:
"using taxpayer funded facilities (that don't pay any local taxes)...."

Taxes. Boo hoo hoo. Your focus is getting tiresome.

New machinists getting trained! (but not with YOUR money.... can't be!)

The state of CT offers programs to Manufacturers where the state helps pay for a % of a new machine purchase up to $50k(I think is the max).

Even though I am in the exact position to benefit from these programs, I find it disgusting.

It's called principles.

What right does the state have to take money from the kid who bags groceries down the road and give it to me?

dcsipo · Nov 30, 2022

Alloy Mcgraw said:
The state of CT offers programs to Manufacturers where the state helps pay for a % of a new machine purchase up to $50k(I think is the max).

Even though I am in the exact position to benefit from these programs, I find it disgusting.

It's called principles.

What right does the state have to take money from the kid who bags groceries down the road and give it to me?

You confuse me. What right Ahold Delhaize has to make money from the same kid at Stop&Shop? The state invests for the expected tax revenue.

We need a lot more of this in the US; what is your state doing?

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