I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

Trboatworks · Sep 4, 2022

This article is typical.
There is fear as is so often the case.
As is often not the case we should know soon if those fears are warranted.

Metal Plants Feeding Europe’s Factories Face an Existential Crisis

Power-intensive aluminum smelters say they need government support to survive.

www.bloomberg.com

plastikdreams · Sep 4, 2022

At only 1.5% of the market I don't think it's going to affect us over here.

steve-l · Sep 5, 2022

This is an extremely bad time in Europe. It is not just manufacturing There is a large energy shortage in Europe. This will affect everything from jobs to food on the shelf. When that happens, wars follow and that affects everybody. This has happened throughout human history. Ignore history at your peril.

mrSanders62 · Sep 5, 2022

steve-l said:
This is an extremely bad time in Europe. It is not just manufacturing There is a large energy shortage in Europe. This will affect everything from jobs to food on the shelf. When that happens, wars follow and that affects everybody. This has happened throughout human history. Ignore history at your peril.

say a big thank you to poland for canceling long contracts in favor of spot prices

Scottl · Sep 5, 2022

mrSanders62 said:
say a big thank you to poland for canceling long contracts in favor of spot prices

More like they should say a big thank you to USA, NATO and EU for stupidity of provoking Russia into this Ukraine war where Ukraine is being used as yet another U.S. proxy.

mrSanders62 · Sep 5, 2022

Scottl said:
More like they should say a big thank you to USA, NATO and EU for stupidity of provoking Russia into this Ukraine war where Ukraine is being used as yet another U.S. proxy.

the war itself has nothing to do with gas. Russian gas is pumped through Ukraine and Ukraine receives money for it. right now. there was a period in the very near past when spot gas prices were much lower than prices under long-term contracts. Poland, which used long-term contracts, sued Gazprom and won it. earned one and a half billion euros. Since then, the era of spot prices has begun.. but perhaps they needed to look a little further than their nose. by the way, Norway refused to show European solidarity and sell gas to Europe below the spot price. Now the European Union wants to impose a price ceiling on Russian oil and gas. just stupid idiots who as a result will not have Russian oil and gas, but will have higher prices and norway usa africa and arab countries

gustafson · Sep 5, 2022

Scottl said:
More like they should say a big thank you to USA, NATO and EU for stupidity of provoking Russia into this Ukraine war where Ukraine is being used as yet another U.S. proxy.

Yeah, all our fault that Russia invaded another country

Scottl · Sep 5, 2022

gustafson said:
Yeah, all our fault that Russia invaded another country

Yes it is. It is well known that the U.S. backed the coup that overthrew the democratically elected leader in Ukraine and installed a hostile to Russia government. That government then began to persecute Russian speakers in the Donbas, eventually leading to the rebellion that triggered the current crisis. It is also well known that the U.S. led the charge to expand NATO to the borders of Russia against warnings by Russia and Russia experts that this would be an unacceptable aggression that could lead to war.

And here we are.

mrSanders62 · Sep 5, 2022

Trboatworks said:
I would counter that single point in the otherwise excellent post.

The RU controlled territory contains some 12 trillion in reserves with Nat gas being a goodly portion.
This is a resource war- one of those resources is natural gas so I would say it is specifically relevant.

difficult to speak correctly through an interpreter. the war is implicated here indirectly because of it sanctions were imposed on Russia, including on raw materials. I don’t know what the European Union’s plan was, but everything from Russia was sold to it at low prices. Nord Stream 2 has not been launched although it is fully operational. the fact that Europe was preparing a conflict is obvious, but something did not go according to plan

mrSanders62 · Sep 5, 2022

gustafson said:
Yeah, all our fault that Russia invaded another country

why Norway refused to help the European Union, what do you think?

gustafson · Sep 5, 2022

Scottl said:
Yes it is. It is well known that the U.S. backed the coup that overthrew the democratically elected leader in Ukraine and installed a hostile to Russia government. That government then began to persecute Russian speakers in the Donbas, eventually leading to the rebellion that triggered the current crisis. It is also well known that the U.S. led the charge to expand NATO to the borders of Russia against warnings by Russia and Russia experts that this would be an unacceptable aggression that could lead to war.

And here we are.

Please direct us to the press office at the Kremlin so we can read their propaganda firsthand

standardparts · Sep 5, 2022

Trboatworks said:
This article is typical.
There is fear as is so often the case.
As is often not the case we should know soon if those fears are warranted.

Metal Plants Feeding Europe’s Factories Face an Existential Crisis

Power-intensive aluminum smelters say they need government support to survive.

www.bloomberg.com

Move aluminum production to Spain and operate at night when, according to posts on PM, electricity is virtually free.

standardparts · Sep 5, 2022

gustafson said:
Yeah, all our fault that Russia invaded another country.

No Gulf Of Tonkin, WMDs or regime change/coup this time around...looks like the U.S. is content with funding the festivities in Ukraine.

Scottl · Sep 5, 2022

gustafson said:
Please direct us to the press office at the Kremlin so we can read their propaganda firsthand

Please direct us to the press office of Ukraine so we can read their propaganda firsthand.

EmanuelGoldstein · Sep 5, 2022

Scottl said:
Please direct us to the press office of Ukraine so we can read their propaganda firsthand.

No need. It is conveniently brought to us in colloquial english by the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, API UPI and every other warmongering news outlet in north america.

The fact that they've been consistently lying through their teeth for the past seventy-five years doesn't phase avid readers such as our Mr Gustafson.

gustafson · Sep 5, 2022

Scottl said:
Please direct us to the press office of Ukraine so we can read their propaganda firsthand.

Why, is there a dispute of facts here?
Russia invaded a sovereign nation
Period
You support that

The why of that is known only to you

gustafson · Sep 5, 2022

EmanuelGoldstein said:
No need. It is conveniently brought to us in colloquial english by the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, API UPI and every other warmongering news outlet in north america.

The fact that they've been consistently lying through their teeth for the past seventy-five years doesn't phase avid readers such as our Mr Gustafson.

Truth in media is not your strong point

EmanuelGoldstein · Sep 5, 2022

barbter2 said:
Oh....Chy-Na are getting it from Russia but Shusshhhhhhh.....

Brilliant Joe Biden strikes again

Straightedge · Sep 5, 2022

Ten days ago, the wholesale futures on November baseline-load electricity in France were at $1.66/kWh. At that price, it would take around $93 of electricity to make 1kg of aluminum metal from bauxite ore. A single 15-gram beer can would have about $1.39 of electricity embedded in just the metal.

jaguar36 · Sep 5, 2022

~~~~~Mod Note~~~~~
The politics of whose fault Ukraine was are not relevant to machining or manufacturing. Any further posts that are off topic will be deleted .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

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