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is the field of robotics and automation worth going into?

irontmp

Plastic
Joined
Dec 14, 2022
Hello all. I am a new member here. I am mostly here for manual machining, What is the demand around the world for someone with an experience and education in robotics and automation?

And another thing that's on my mind is personally the way I see computer science and anything revolving around coding is that it's BOOMING, is it not oversaturated? Like yeah, it's pretty much essential moving on, but it looks super competitive.

I have yet to go out in the workforce and I will be starting an automation and robotics bachelor program.

It seems to me like robotics isn't a field that is not yet popular but will be huge since as we go on, A LOT will be automated, it seems inevitable but that won't be in my lifetime...
 

irontmp

Plastic
Joined
Dec 14, 2022
Hello all. I am a new member here. I am mostly here for manual machining, What is the demand around the world for someone with an experience and education in robotics and automation?

And another thing that's on my mind is personally the way I see computer science and anything revolving around coding is that it's BOOMING, is it not oversaturated? Like yeah, it's pretty much essential moving on, but it looks super competitive.

I have yet to go out in the workforce and I will be starting an automation and robotics bachelor program.

It seems to me like robotics isn't a field that is not yet popular but will be huge since as we go on, A LOT will be industrial automation, it seems inevitable but that won't be in my lifetime...
thanks for any help
 

Robert R

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Raymond , CA
The automation and robotics industry suffers from the forest ranger/ zoo keeper problem. Years ago these jobs paid significantly less than other engineering fields because they were perceived to be more interesting and more enjoyable compared to work in areas such as stress analysis, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, field service, purchasing, and product support. In the 1990's the salaried pay rates were about half what one could earn in the semiconductor capital equipment industry or in aerospace. Zoo keepers and forest rangers have the same problem. There are many people that are willing to do this work for free.

The second problem is the ever shrinking demand for engineers. In the 1970's there were approximately 2 million engineers in the US. Every year about 200,000 new graduates entered the market and pushed out the engineers that were considered too expensive or perceived to be essential. Modern business theory requires that essential employees be eliminated whenever possible. The average career length was 10 years.

Since that time the actual number of engineers in the US has decreased due to industry consolidation and the outsourcing of research and development.
Government statistics still show about 2 million engineering jobs. The number has been inflated by the inclusion of software engineers, application engineers, field service engineers, purchasing engineers, and any other occupation title that has had the engineer label glued on.

A career in automation and robotics is possible if your long term goal is to be a contractor rather than a employee. The process involves hiring in at a company, staying no longer than one project or two years, whichever comes first, and then jumping to the next employer. After about 10 years you will have gained sufficient experience and industry contacts that you will be able to enter the world of the self employed and compete for the outsourced work.

Companies that are cost conscience will outsource their design. build and install automation work rather than maintain a bloated staff of software, electrical, and mechanical engineers. The reason for this is that a successful product or process may have a life of decades. It may only take months to produce a prototype once the need for the product or process is defined. Once this happens the engineering staff is no longer required. You just need a few workers for product support, field service, sales, and incremental improvements.

The salary trends of the 1990's are still true today. It will be worthwhile to look at starting salaries in the oil and gas industry, the semiconductor capital equipment industry, aerospace, and the life style software companies and compare it to the starting salaries offered for automation/controls work at companies such as Caterpillar, Ford, General Electric, or Amazon.

If you would like to get a idea of how insecure a career in engineering is you can spend some time reviewing the posts in one of the layoff websites.


There has been one important change in the engineering market over the years. In the distant past the responsibility on who to interview and who to hire was made by department lead engineers. A competent engineer can spot a fraud in minutes.

The common practice today is to assign the hiring responsibility to human resources or program managers. These are people with little or no engineering background. They base the decision to hire on credentials rather than knowledge or skills. Credentials include what school you attended, what you did at your last job, what your previous salary was and whatever pieces of paper you have collected certifying that you have received specialized training. If you want to advance (or survive) in the industry you will need to maintain your credentials even if they seem unimportant.
 
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CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Robots and other automation is bad.
At some point you build the system that puts your best friend and his wife out of work.
Then how good do ya feel at night... Been there and done that.
Bob
 

GiroDyno

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Location
PNW
A little bit OT but I just spent some time in Vietnam and saw a lot of young ex-pats there doing computer science-y type work.
They get hired by a big multinational to be an engineer and have the benefit of being able to work remotely, they then hire a local who is just as proficient (or better) an engineer and pay the local 10-25% of their engineering salary to do the work while they go off sightseeing. Hardest part of the job is not getting caught/fired for it.
 

Robert R

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Location
Raymond , CA
The "essential employees shall be eliminated policy" is not modern. It has been standard practice for decades. One of the early pioneers in the practice was Intel. It is also common practice at the oil majors, in aerospace, or at any large corporation.
I have even witnessed it in operation at companies with less than 100 employees.

The idea is simple. A complex difficult to describe work assignment normally assigned to one person is divided up into several smaller jobs with well defined responsibilities. Each of the smaller jobs has a full time employee that can be quickly trained to do the work. The primary benefit of the arrangement is that any employee can be easily and quickly replaced. The other goal is to eliminate the risk of wage inflation. The specialized employees have no bargaining power.

The are a number of disadvantages to this arrangement.
The company now has three low paid employees doing work that was once performed by a single high paid employee.
The companies ability to innovate new products has been reduced or eliminated entirely.
The time required to complete a task has been greatly increased.

The main advantage of this arrangement is that the three employees in the example now need a manager to divide up the work and regulate their activity.
Defence contractors have a strong financial incentive to engage in the practice. They bill the taxpayer by the labor hour.

The companies that make extensive use of the practice will have complex employee ranking systems that require a specific percentage of employees to be replaced on a annual basis. At Intel it was 10%.

The Layoff website listed above will provide additional details if you will like to learn more about the practice.
The Intel, Exxon-Mobil, and Raytheon forums are good places to start your search.
 
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garyhlucas

Stainless
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Location
New Jersey
Most of what you are seeing here is negative. I'm a self-taught automation engineer, which was a mistake of not finishing my degree. That has cost me a lot of stupid money over the years from stupid people. The key to never being laid off for any substantial period or for any cause is to be constantly learning so you are never obsolete. So a 69 year old guy like me, a 55 year history of success at every company, and currently using the lastest versions of all the various software packages, that is killer, we already ate your mom and dads jobs.

You really don't want come against my grandson for a job. I've been pounding this learning stuff into his since he was a five year old doing math problems in the back seat. He has worked his ass off in school. Earned a seat in the stem program. Joined the FIRST Robotics team (which I still mentor0. Took weekend classes, took summer classes. Got into NJIT for civil engineering (ugh) skipping his freshman and sophmore years, yet still made deans list, has a paid internship with a large engineering firm and still works at Target during Holidays. He graduates this spring at just over the line for 19. He expects to pick up his masters 2 weeks before he turns 20 because of all the extra credits he carries.

I here all this crap about age descrimination and such. People ovr 50, most of you are obsolete and it was NOT automation that did it! So I just took a new job closer to home, little more money lots less uninteresting work. What do I all day? Mechanical, Electrical, Hydraulic, design and programming PLCs, Servos, HMIs, and VFDs. Automating our parts ordering system. Been doing a lot of project estimating, one for emptying trays of plants too large for people to do, My boss blew the estimate for the prototype but we had no problem covering it, because they bought 2. A machine to caulk automatically, then test its strength, price was a little high, but they are putting money in the budget for next year, for two. I redesigned a project for a current customer. They were thrilled with the changes, and bought two. We do final runof before Christmas. There foreign branch asked for a different version which I banged out quickly. They bought it, and the US branch wants one too. My previous employer from 7 months ago has just given us an order for a machine I proposed while working there.

I'm fast at this because I learn new stuff every day and I'm perfectly capable of designing machines entirely from scratch. I just brought in nearly $1,000,000 worth of new work. My boss is smart too. I had a great college intern over the summer, I work with a young lady materials engineer that is 24. He has me setting up teaching for the kids, everyone under 40, that's everybody but me. We hope to start right before going home for Christmas. The goal is that when I decide to retire or are forced to retire the company just keeps on moving on.

Good luck to you,
 

YoDoug

Plastic
Joined
Jun 29, 2022
I will add my thoughts here. I work as a control systems/automation engineer. We are a small shop so I own the whole process from cradle to grave as the saying goes. I design the automation including CAD mechanical, electrical, pneumatic, etc. I program CNC's to machines part for the automation cells. I build the physical systems when ready. I program CNC's, PLC's, Safety controllers, Custom Windows cell control software, etc. I get paid extremely well and the work I do makes a ton of money for my employer. It wasn't always that way. I worked for years as a CNC programmer then applications for a machine tool distributor. I finally decided I wanted more so I went back to school, part time, to get a BS in electronics engineering. It took almost 5 years of doing 10-20 hours of homework every weekend to complete the degree. It was worth it though as I have nearly doubled my income.

That being said, Automation and Robotics is a pretty generic description and depending on the circumstances pay will vary a lot. As others have said you need to focus on getting the right experience so that you can land the job/pay you desire. That may mean making moves for opportunity rather than comfort.
 

bosmos_j

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
.....A complex difficult to describe work assignment normally assigned to one person is divided up into several smaller jobs with well defined responsibilities. Each of the smaller jobs has a full time employee that can be quickly trained to do the work. The primary benefit of the arrangement is that any employee can be easily and quickly replaced.
......
The main advantage of this arrangement is that the three employees in the example now need a manager

Distopian future with nothing but temps and middle managers. Beautiful ;)
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
automation.jpg
Above is a UAW poster from long back
The standing joke in the GM "Factory of the future" project was that you need only 5 guys on the floor and a room full of 200 engineers to keep it running.
Good to be those engineers.

More to real. There is a shortage of people who can do this well.
Prepare for a lot of travel time away from home but it pays so very good and you can jump ships at you will.
I left this type job 20-30 years ago and doing so was by far the biggest mistake I have ever made.
Bob
 
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Stirling

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Location
Alberta canada
Hello all. I am a new member here. I am mostly here for manual machining, What is the demand around the world for someone with an experience and education in robotics and automation?

And another thing that's on my mind is personally the way I see computer science and anything revolving around coding is that it's BOOMING, is it not oversaturated? Like yeah, it's pretty much essential moving on, but it looks super competitive.

I have yet to go out in the workforce and I will be starting an automation and robotics bachelor program.

It seems to me like robotics isn't a field that is not yet popular but will be huge since as we go on, A LOT will be automated, it seems inevitable but that won't be in my lifetime...
I’m not sure what a “robotics” program looks like.
But the electrician and instrumentation combined trade is a field I would consider if I was looking at entering the workforce.
I love machining, but those e&i guys seem to be making a killing and most of their tools it in a duffle bag.
And the demand and complexity is only growing
 

Milling man

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Location
Moscow, Russia
What is the demand around the world for someone with an experience and education in robotics and automation?

And another thing that's on my mind is personally the way I see computer science and anything revolving around coding is that it's BOOMING, is it not oversaturated? Like yeah, it's pretty much essential moving on, but it looks super competitive.

I have yet to go out in the workforce and I will be starting an automation and robotics bachelor program.

It seems to me like robotics isn't a field that is not yet popular but will be huge since as we go on, A LOT will be automated, it seems inevitable but that won't be in my lifetime...
I think the answer to all your questions is yes.
The demand for automation systems will only grow. The population is aging, engineering professions are becoming less popular - the demand for a good specialist will only be higher.
 

IceCzar

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 3, 2022
There is a really big difference between possessing a skill set and a specialized career.

I'd highly encourage you to become competent in as many skill sets as possible. It's a small investment to get into automation and both personally useful (your own shop) and professionally valuable.

https://www.automationdirect.com/videos/home

Hydraulics, Pneumatics, Electrical Engineering, Metallurgy ect ect ect
Gain as many skillsets as you can.
 

garyhlucas

Stainless
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Location
New Jersey
I'm fast at this because I learn new stuff every day and I'm perfectly capable of designing machines entirely from scratch. I just brought in nearly $1,000,000 worth of new work. My boss is smart too. I had a great college intern over the summer, I work with a young lady materials engineer that is 24. He has me setting up teaching for the kids, everyone under 40, that's everybody but me. We hope to start right before going home for Christmas. The goal is that when I decide to retire or are forced to retire the company just keeps on moving on.

Good luck to you,
Did my first automation traning class with everyone in the company on Friday before we went out for a great Christmas lunch as at very nice restaurant. It went well, the boss says he wants me to do one once a month! For the first time in my career I have the week between Christmas and New Years off! Back in my electrician days this was when all our Fortune 500 customers scheduled all their shutdowns for us to work, also Thanskgiving.
 

rbmgf7

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 18, 2017
Fanuc offers varying degrees of education from programming to integrating. You should be able to go on your own dime if you're that willing. That would be a decent pad on the resume.

You might be able to get into an integration company but often times they will educate you or send you to the respective robotics company for a crash course.

I worked for a Japanese automotive company and they had a multi-million dollar onsite university with the latest in robotics, PLC, machining, etc. that was used to teach engineers and maintenance techs. I had no experience in any of it but had a decent understanding afterwards. The rest came from just doing and experimenting. I grew such an interest afterwards, I do a lot at home.

Now I'm stuck with a cliche American corp and I've brought up the "A" word and I was told by the execs and higher up, they have no interest in automating (it's really: they have no interest in investing back into the company). This place has fallen off a cliff.

If you're not tinkering with home/personal projects already on some level of automation, then I would reconsider. Putting down what you accomplished on your personal time stands out more on a resume than just your GPA. Go into a trade that interests you, not just because you stand to make money. You'll get more out of fulfillment than chasing dollars. But if you get good at it, the other will follow.

People think automation is strictly robots. It's not. IoT, SCADA, etc. is rolled up into the automation bubble. The more you monitor, the more you can control.

I can guarantee if you can learn some basic networking, that would make you stand out a lot in a pile of resumes. Every interview I had, I was asked how much networking knowledge I had. In the beginning, I had none. I could set up my Wifi at home and that was it. Then I learned a little over time, just enough to connect various devices at work. The more you become a Jack of Trades, the more of value you will be.
 
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