Looking for a good mid grade 3d printer to get started with.

604Pook · Sep 16, 2022

I searched but couldn't find anything current on the forum. Google searching is many days days of reading down a rabbit hole that never ends.

Background: I use Solidworks and Camworks, a currently run a Fadal 4020, a Masteel CNC Lathe with a Fagor controller, and a Onsrud CNC router with a Fanuc control...more or less self taught in all of this for my main work for my family's business.

I moved last year 5 hours from the business, so lately I program and do everything remotely with the help of employees at the business while I am currently building and setting up a shop here to bring the Fadal and Masteel Lathe here. I live in the woods, small town 30 minutes away, anything you could call a small city is 3/4hours away, 5.5 hours for a real city.

What I think I need:

I have been making my own products for years, and have machining and fabricating my prototypes the old fashion way, but would like to start 3d printing some stuff to check fitment, ergonomics, and overall look prior to actually making a real one.

Ideally bigger the better for print size, but at a minimum I think a 12" x 12" x 6" envelope would be enough to get me started. I have learned I like making smaller parts over the years.

What kind of machine would beginner friendly and would be as good mid level machine quality wise? I don't want garbage parts and I don't want to have to spend hours tweaking it to make it work. Willing to pay more for ease of use.

burdickjp · Oct 9, 2022

An Ultimaker S5 would be my first suggestion:

Ultimaker S5: Reliability at scale

Ultimaker S5 desktop 3D printer is now available. Its large build volume and reliable dual extrusion delivers industrial-grade parts, time and again.

ultimaker.com

It's roughly 300 x 200 x 300 mm in build volume, can print in good materials like carbon reinforced nylon, and is very reliable.
I'm going to be selling an older Ultimaker 3 Extended soon. It takes the same material, uses the same software, but is slightly smaller in build volume at 200 x 200 x 300 mm.
Ultimaker doesn't have a page for it anymore, but here's an old vendor page for the Ultimaker 3: https://www.matterhackers.com/store/printer-kits/ultimaker-3-extended-3d-printer-fully-assembled

If you're willing to wait, and it looks like it'll be a lot of waiting, the Prusa XL looks very promising:

Original Prusa XL | Original Prusa 3D printers directly from Josef Prusa

The Original Prusa XL is a large-scale CoreXY 3D printer with a build volume of 36×36×36 cm (14.17’’×14.17’’×14.17’’). Featuring an optional tool changer with up to 5 independent tool heads, automatic first layer calibration for an always-perfect first layer, and many smart features, the XL...

www.prusa3d.com

Ni200 · Oct 12, 2022

the printer that got me start was/is the Creality Ender 3.

https://www.amazon.com/Comgrow-Creality-Ender-Aluminum-220x220x250mm/dp/B07BR3F9N6/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2MEJXCTM385LH&keywords=creality+ender+3+pro&qid=1665591020&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjEwIiwicXNhIjoiMy42MiIsInFzcCI6IjMuMzUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=creality+ender+3+pro%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.08f69ac3-fd3d-4b88-bca2-8997e41410bb&psc=1

It may be roughly 2/3's of the build volume you are looking for, but with the ease of the slicing software, along with how cheap/easy it is to setup and learn the basics, this is probably the perfect beginners printer.

At the shop I work at we have a 2k printer and 3 of these, and its the three creality's that are always active - kicking out simple mock prototypes to give the engineers an idea of what their final assembly will fit/feel like.

604Pook · Oct 17, 2022

Ni200 said:
the printer that got me start was/is the Creality Ender 3.

https://www.amazon.com/Comgrow-Creality-Ender-Aluminum-220x220x250mm/dp/B07BR3F9N6/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2MEJXCTM385LH&keywords=creality+ender+3+pro&qid=1665591020&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI0LjEwIiwicXNhIjoiMy42MiIsInFzcCI6IjMuMzUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=creality+ender+3+pro%2Caps%2C140&sr=8-2-spons&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.08f69ac3-fd3d-4b88-bca2-8997e41410bb&psc=1

It may be roughly 2/3's of the build volume you are looking for, but with the ease of the slicing software, along with how cheap/easy it is to setup and learn the basics, this is probably the perfect beginners printer.

At the shop I work at we have a 2k printer and 3 of these, and its the three creality's that are always active - kicking out simple mock prototypes to give the engineers an idea of what their final assembly will fit/feel like.

Thanks I will check them out.

burdickjp · Oct 17, 2022

While people have had success with Creality printers, and other printers out of China, I do not feel they're appropriate for the original poster's questions. Yes, the machines are cheap, but that is one part of a bigger need.

Prusa Knowledge Base

All information you need to know about Original Prusa 3D printers…

help.prusa3d.com

Prusa has exceptional documentation, support, instructions, etc.
Ultimaker is not as good, but is still great.

GiroDyno · Oct 18, 2022

Do you want a large printer to make large parts or lots of small ones?

I had good luck with an Ender 5+. Make an enclosure, and upgrade to an all metal hotend if you'd like to use "higher grade" materials like PC and Nylon.
I now have a Qidi i-Fast instead because I wanted something with dual extruders and a 'factory' enclosure. It's needed one heater cable and a filament sensor replaced which is unfortunate since I've only printed a <1000 hours on it, but the support is fast to respond and troubleshoot.

Have you considered resin printers? Something like an Elegoo Saturn or Photon MonoX has a smaller build than you want but if you want to make aesthetic or highly detailed parts they're a better fit, and IME they can print much faster. I just set up an Elegoo Jupiter and the initial prints have been beautiful. I will be using it to make molds for bladder molded composite parts, the surface quality right off the machine is good enough for molding, just needs a quick wax and buff.

michiganbuck · Oct 18, 2022

It would seem that gasket-making would be a good use of a 3d printer....and with it having a very simple method to design the program so almost any mechanic could make one PDQ. (pretty darn quick.)..could even have a gasket program for common gaskets that would zap off a cell phone..
Too bad I'm not the engineer and sales rep for a USA 3d company...

604Pook · Oct 18, 2022

GiroDyno said:
Do you want a large printer to make large parts or lots of small ones?

I had good luck with an Ender 5+. Make an enclosure, and upgrade to an all metal hotend if you'd like to use "higher grade" materials like PC and Nylon.
I now have a Qidi i-Fast instead because I wanted something with dual extruders and a 'factory' enclosure. It's needed one heater cable and a filament sensor replaced which is unfortunate since I've only printed a <1000 hours on it, but the support is fast to respond and troubleshoot.

Have you considered resin printers? Something like an Elegoo Saturn or Photon MonoX has a smaller build than you want but if you want to make aesthetic or highly detailed parts they're a better fit, and IME they can print much faster. I just set up an Elegoo Jupiter and the initial prints have been beautiful. I will be using it to make molds for bladder molded composite parts, the surface quality right off the machine is good enough for molding, just needs a quick wax and buff.

Larger prints. I don't currently plan to make any plastics parts, but the more I look into it I see more possible uses for a printer.

For my own needs I typically make parts for motorcycles, and off-road vehicles, which I design, prototype, then machine/fabricate small production runs.

jccaclimber · Oct 20, 2022

Whatever you get, keep your filament dry if it’s a remotely hygroscopic material. While I’ve seen plenty of good prints off of many printers, the people I know who store their filament in a dry box whenever it’s not being used, and some when it is, seem to have far less issues with warped and failed prints.
This can be as simple as a big plastic box with a rechargeable desiccant pack inside, but it really helps IME.

winger · Oct 20, 2022

I have an Ender 3 max. Just a little bit bigger. 300 x 300.
With a couple spools it was about $300.
Anyone using an automatic bed leveler. Is it worth it?
A recent problem I had was the nozzle getting plugged up. The symptom was the filament drive stepper was jumping and it wasn't printing as good. So good to order spare nozzles.
Dave

dgfoster · Nov 3, 2022

On advice of several very experienced 3-D printers, I purchased a Prusa MK3 in early summer.It has been awesome.

Why I like it:
1). It is made well by a company in Czech Republic that only makes 3D printers.

2) It has been completely trouble-free. After I assembled the kit and plugged it in, it has required no fiddling.

3) Support when I have had operation questions has been lightning fast (a very few mins chat response time) and by knowledgeable folks who speak English like it is their first language.

4) Prusa filament is second to none and tuned perfectly to work with Prusa printers. I pay perhaps 1.5x per reel of filament supplied by Prusa. But it works first time, every time printing cleanly and strong. Since I am interested in avoiding hassles, the premium is worth it. Shopping from Cz Is fast (typically 3days!) and is included in my premium price.

I just prototyped this part adaptor that fits a 5c 1.062” collet yesterday prior to making it in steel. Glad I printed it first as I had overlooked the limited depth of bore of the collet. Fixing it in the CAD drawing/print was a lot less painful than after heat treat! For anyone who cares to look here is a link to the drawing. My drawing is nothing special, but it is an example of the beauty of Onshape.

Link to drwg

Josef Prusa started the company and runs it like it is his own—-it is.

Pro tip: for prototyping, spend 5 bucks and get a .6mm extruding tip—-much faster printing and only mild resolution loss.

Denis

604Pook · Nov 3, 2022

dgfoster said:
On advice of several very experienced 3-D printers, I purchased a Prusa MK3 in early summer.It has been awesome.

Why I like it:
1). It is made well by a company in Czech Republic that only makes 3D printers.

2) It has been completely trouble-free. After I assembled the kit and plugged it in, it has required no fiddling.

3) Support when I have had operation questions has been lightning fast (a very few mins chat response time) and by knowledgeable folks who speak English like it is their first language.

4) Prusa filament is second to none and tuned perfectly to work with Prusa printers. I pay perhaps 1.5x per reel of filament supplied by Prusa. But it works first time, every time printing cleanly and strong. Since I am interested in avoiding hassles, the premium is worth it. Shopping from Cz Is fast (typically 3days!) and is included in my premium price.

I just prototyped this part adaptor that fits a 5c 1.062” collet yesterday prior to making it in steel. Glad I printed it first as I had overlooked the limited depth of bore of the collet. Fixing it in the CAD drawing/print was a lot less painful than after heat treat! For anyone who cares to look here is a link to the drawing. My drawing is nothing special, but it is an example of the beauty of Onshape.

Link to drwg

Josef Prusa started the company and runs it like it is his own—-it is.

Pro tip: for prototyping, spend 5 bucks and get a .6mm extruding tip—-much faster printing and only mild resolution loss.

View attachment 378649

Denis

Thanks, exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for. I want to open box, plug in and push print for the most part, between wife, kids, work, yardwork and trying to have some of my own hobbies, the less learning curve the better.

magno_grail · Nov 8, 2022

There are two things to look at, the machine and the software. Most machines are similar in that they use stepper motors for the three axis and another for feeding the wire. A fancier machine might have more than one feed so different colours can be printed in the same part. Totally irrelevant for prototyping. Build volume is just how large the frame is. Although most manufacturers charge a lot more for larger build volumes it actually costs little to manufacture it, just longer ball screws and frame extrusions.
The machine I bought has a 500mm cube volume and uses mostly Creality parts. It was made in and bought directly from China where most of these are made.
Having an enclosure around the machine helps keep the temperature constant but it is far cheaper to build your own.
On the software side there are open source programs for generating the G code file from the .stl file. Your Solidworks or Camworks should be able to output the .stl file.
I use Cura, which is open source to generate the G code. It has a lot of options for things such as wall thickness, internal webbing, build speed. You can start off with the defaults and change from there.
Printing is not fast. Figure on several hours to print something the size of a clutch basket. The higher the resolution the longer the build time. Here is a BSA B50 clutch basket, drum and hub. I did not model the chainwheel teeth as that was not important.
With the 'normal' setting (0.15mm layer height) it takes 13.5 hours to print the basket with a 40mm/sec print speed. Some machines may be capable of printing faster, I just left it at the default Cura setting. The G code file is 28Mb. The drum is 4.4Mb and the hub is 2Mb.
This clutch uses KTM parts. I was checking the fit of the KTM plates and pressure plate and fit in the case.

604Pook · Nov 8, 2022

magno_grail said:
There are two things to look at, the machine and the software. Most machines are similar in that they use stepper motors for the three axis and another for feeding the wire. A fancier machine might have more than one feed so different colours can be printed in the same part. Totally irrelevant for prototyping. Build volume is just how large the frame is. Although most manufacturers charge a lot more for larger build volumes it actually costs little to manufacture it, just longer ball screws and frame extrusions.
The machine I bought has a 500mm cube volume and uses mostly Creality parts. It was made in and bought directly from China where most of these are made.
Having an enclosure around the machine helps keep the temperature constant but it is far cheaper to build your own.
On the software side there are open source programs for generating the G code file from the .stl file. Your Solidworks or Camworks should be able to output the .stl file.
I use Cura, which is open source to generate the G code. It has a lot of options for things such as wall thickness, internal webbing, build speed. You can start off with the defaults and change from there.
Printing is not fast. Figure on several hours to print something the size of a clutch basket. The higher the resolution the longer the build time. Here is a BSA B50 clutch basket, drum and hub. I did not model the chainwheel teeth as that was not important.
With the 'normal' setting (0.15mm layer height) it takes 13.5 hours to print the basket with a 40mm/sec print speed. Some machines may be capable of printing faster, I just left it at the default Cura setting. The G code file is 28Mb. The drum is 4.4Mb and the hub is 2Mb.
This clutch uses KTM parts. I was checking the fit of the KTM plates and pressure plate and fit in the case.

Thanks. This is exactly the kind of work I would like one for. I was making brake caliper adapters and some spacers for adapting oversized rotors for a custom job, where 3d printing some trial parts would of helped get everything lined up and "looking right" much easier than machining a bunch of parts to try.

winger · Nov 8, 2022

I should have added that I have not attempted any high accuracy work. Just a few containers for my toolbox. I did do a lot of toothpaste tube rollers. Gifts for friends and family. So I never bothered to see how accurate it is printing. Sounds like a new project.

Dave

dgfoster · Nov 8, 2022

I did do some accuracy testing with my two printers. On the resin printer it was within a couple of thousands in the Y direction on a 1.5" test print and less than .001" in the X direction on a 2 x 4“ the smae test print. And then on my filament printer I have found that it also is within a few thousand on a two or 3 inch dimension. Here is a picture of a resin-printed 3/16” end mill adaptor that fits 5/8 collet. It was printed using a 119 dollar Phrozen Mini printer. It includes a 6-32 hole for a set screw. The set screw threaded in easily and snugly. The 5/8” shank was a good fit in the collet and the 3/16 bore needed a light reaming ( I could almost turn the reamer with my fingers) to allow the carbid end mill to slide in.

Here is the CAD drawing of the adaptor. The lettering on the nose is "just for kicks." But the intent of the print is to show a friend of mine how he might use a steel version of that adaptor to make it easier for him to make some wire-bending equipment for his busines..

The above image is the drawing. As a demo for a friend I put lettering on the nose. It is .060” high and raised .010 and is clearly legible in the print.

I am not suggesting I am any great master printer when, in fact, I am a noob. The idea here is to show that a couple of pretty basic printers, even in the hands of a hack, yield results that surprise me in their accuracy.

Denis

magno_grail · Nov 9, 2022

Yes, you have to familiarize yourself with the accuracy of the printer which will depend upon print speed, filament, layer thickness, et cetera if you are trying to make precision parts.
You cannot print in empty space. Overhangs and vertical cavities require supports which have to be removed afterward and always leave a rough finish so you have to plan the orientation of the print and sometimes make separate pieces and glue them together.

DubbleTrubble · Nov 16, 2022

Another vote for Prusa. I have a Prusa Mini+, which is too small for what you seek, but it's awesome. And the Prusa slicer is really packed with options. I find that I rarely make parts larger than 7x7x7, and I print a ton of stuff.

I just got a Qidi X-plus yesterday and will open the box this weekend. I got it at an 11/11 sale for $610 to my doorstep, which was too good to pass up. It gets tons of good reviews and might have the potential to be an out-of-the box rockstar too. We'll see. It's 10.5x8x8, but Qidi also makes the X-Max which is 12x12x10 and retails for about $1000 before tax and shipping.

I never imagined how useful a 3D printer could be.

trevillaengineering · Dec 4, 2022

burdickjp said:
An Ultimaker S5 would be my first suggestion:

Ultimaker S5: Reliability at scale

Ultimaker S5 desktop 3D printer is now available. Its large build volume and reliable dual extrusion delivers industrial-grade parts, time and again.

ultimaker.com

It's roughly 300 x 200 x 300 mm in build volume, can print in good materials like carbon reinforced nylon, and is very reliable.
I'm going to be selling an older Ultimaker 3 Extended soon. It takes the same material, uses the same software, but is slightly smaller in build volume at 200 x 200 x 300 mm.
Ultimaker doesn't have a page for it anymore, but here's an old vendor page for the Ultimaker 3: https://www.matterhackers.com/store/printer-kits/ultimaker-3-extended-3d-printer-fully-assembled

If you're willing to wait, and it looks like it'll be a lot of waiting, the Prusa XL looks very promising:

Original Prusa XL | Original Prusa 3D printers directly from Josef Prusa

The Original Prusa XL is a large-scale CoreXY 3D printer with a build volume of 36×36×36 cm (14.17’’×14.17’’×14.17’’). Featuring an optional tool changer with up to 5 independent tool heads, automatic first layer calibration for an always-perfect first layer, and many smart features, the XL...

www.prusa3d.com

This printer is indeed very great. I have personally utilised this.

Stirling · Dec 4, 2022

Cheap as you can budget. Buy and ended 3.
Got some extra bucks (sub $1000) buy a Prusa.
Both have strong online presence for trouble shooting and should work out of the box.
A newcomer to the game is bamboo labs. Apparently next gen speeds and user friendly. Kinda small build volume tho.

Prusa has real support you can call. Expect zero from the Chinese firm.

After that the sky’s the limit.
If time is money, it’s all money well spent.

Did a quick cad in bed tonight and am printing a milling fixture to use tomorrow for some odd angled holes in a production run. Print overnight. Wake up and get to drilling easily (obviously a low force application,)

If money not tight just throw some around and get learning!

Looking for a good mid grade 3d printer to get started with.

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