New to 5 Axis CAM Recommned?

Houdini16 · Oct 27, 2022

In the future I want to get a 5 axis and gain some efficiency before we actually need it.
I wanted to get an opinion on should we switch CAM software for 5 axis, will this new software replace GibbsCAM for our easy lathe and 3 axis work?
I have never ran or programmed a 5 axis machine.
I have only ever used GibbsCAM for 12years.
I do not like Volumill, It is slow with its adjusting the feed rate constantly, and I would assume HSM paths in problem child steels it would not be good to have the feed rate slowing down.

daringwilliams · Oct 27, 2022

For the most part, programming 5 axis is nearly the same as any 3 axis, you are just starting by setting a 'Tool Vector' / Tool Orientation prior to selecting geometry to cut that can be different from your Setup WCS so the machine orients the part (or the head) and locks out the tilt / rotate axes this is 3+2 machining

It's highly part / feature dependent to use any simultaneous 5 axis paths, I find that to be less than 5% of the work I do, and I'm working with organic shaped hollow 3D printed aluminum / inconel / titanium automotive components, so reached access is highly critical as well as needing to avoid particular clamping or part features

So a good way to get started is to take any current 3 axis part, and imagine how you would fixture it to hit 5 sides in 1 setup. Spending some time doing this will inform what kind of workholding / toolholding needs your 5 axis jobs will require

roamer · Oct 27, 2022

In GibbscCam, the 5 axis engine is by ModuleWorks. It does Adaptive roughing, it does not use Volumill. I use GibsCam 5 axis every day and absolutely love it. I took the 5 axis class at the home office before it closed and I highly recommend getting the most comprehensive training you can find. The 5 axis module can do all the of the same things you can do in Gibbs like SolidSurfacer, Volumill, Roughing, Advanced 3D milling, 4th Axis machining, the works. You simply tell it how many axis you want the output to be by selecting it in a drop box.

roamer · Oct 27, 2022

If you are familiar and comfortable with GibbsCam I would say stay with GibbsCam. The list of Cam systems that license ModuleWorks 5 axis engine is enormous, so if a Cam reseller make a claim that their 5 axis system is better, they are either ignorant or are lying to you.
CamWorks, Cambrio, Cimatron, BobCad-Cam, Autodesk Fusion 360, EdgeCam, Mastercam, Mecsoft, SmartCam, SolidCam, Desault and Many others all run the ModuleWorks engine, so their output, minus a few post processor options, will be Identical.
Save yourself a lot of the learning curve of the Cad side. Here's a link to all the cad-cam companies that license the 5 Axis module;
https://www.moduleworks.com/company/partners/

riverside_eng · Oct 28, 2022

roamer said:
If you are familiar and comfortable with GibbsCam I would say stay with GibbsCam. The list of Cam systems that license ModuleWorks 5 axis engine is enormous, so if a Cam reseller make a claim that their 5 axis system is better, they are either ignorant or are lying to you.
CamWorks, Cambrio, Cimatron, BobCad-Cam, Autodesk Fusion 360, EdgeCam, Mastercam, Mecsoft, SmartCam, SolidCam, Desault and Many others all run the ModuleWorks engine, so their output, minus a few post processor options, will be Identical.
Save yourself a lot of the learning curve of the Cad side. Here's a link to all the cad-cam companies that license the 5 Axis module;
https://www.moduleworks.com/company/partners/

Not every CAM partner listed licenses all the same components and implements them in the exact same way.

You are correct that once items go into the kernel the CAM company can't better the result. However there are differnt ways to call the relevant functions along with defining the input data.

Having read segments of the Moduleworks developer and end user documents there is a good chunk of items that spell out how functionality differs depending on how it is implemented.

Pulling out two partners listed Siemens PLM and Bob CAD/CAM, I would not count on the 5 axis cabilbities of these two softwares being exactly the same "minus a few post processor options"

Matt_W · Oct 31, 2022

riverside_eng said:
Not every CAM partner listed licenses all the same components and implements them in the exact same way.

You are correct that once items go into the kernel the CAM company can't better the result. However there are differnt ways to call the relevant functions along with defining the input data.

Having read segments of the Moduleworks developer and end user documents there is a good chunk of items that spell out how functionality differs depending on how it is implemented.

Pulling out two partners listed Siemens PLM and Bob CAD/CAM, I would not count on the 5 axis cabilbities of these two softwares being exactly the same "minus a few post processor options"

I thought that Siemens NX used it's own strategies? Not Moduleworks.

I used Visi with Mouduleworks, and it may have been how visi implemented the toolpaths but I found it to be not very intuitive and frustrating to work with. Moved to HyperMill and never looked back.

crossthread82 · Oct 31, 2022

roamer said:
If you are familiar and comfortable with GibbsCam I would say stay with GibbsCam. The list of Cam systems that license ModuleWorks 5 axis engine is enormous, so if a Cam reseller make a claim that their 5 axis system is better, they are either ignorant or are lying to you.
CamWorks, Cambrio, Cimatron, BobCad-Cam, Autodesk Fusion 360, EdgeCam, Mastercam, Mecsoft, SmartCam, SolidCam, Desault and Many others all run the ModuleWorks engine, so their output, minus a few post processor options, will be Identical.
Save yourself a lot of the learning curve of the Cad side. Here's a link to all the cad-cam companies that license the 5 Axis module;
https://www.moduleworks.com/company/partners/

That's a bit misleading, many of those you listed do indeed use Moduleworks for some of their multiaxis calculations, but many of them also have their own home brewed toolpaths as well. They just use Moduleworks for a select few not all. As @riverside_eng suggested the integration by the end user aka the CAM developer dictates drastically how the toolpath will act. Simply put Moduleworks creates the algorithm but if you give it different inputs you'll get different outputs.

riverside_eng · Nov 9, 2022

Matt_W said:
I thought that Siemens NX used it's own strategies? Not Moduleworks.

I used Visi with Mouduleworks, and it may have been how visi implemented the toolpaths but I found it to be not very intuitive and frustrating to work with. Moved to HyperMill and never looked back.

I think you are aligned with my point more or less.

I pulled two companies who list partnerships with Moduleworks so they use something somewhere, whether it makes up a small or large part of the whole product.

Siemens strikes me as a case of them being open to buy/partner over redevelop if it fits their need. It could be that they just use moduleworks for some small "commodity" level toolpath elements or it could be something entirely different that exists in the Moduleworks portfolio. A lot of the NX toolpath strategies have tons of different sub methods/modes within them, so there are a lot of bits of logic that have to be tied into every place.

Houdini16 · Nov 9, 2022

yeah I think I hear too much mention of HyperMill, this will probably be what we switch to.
a long time ago before Autodesk bought them out I went to a day of showing off of Delcam's PowerMill and it was awesome, nothing like Gibbscam.
Gibbs is really old and clunky.

empower · Nov 9, 2022

Houdini16 said:
yeah I think I hear too much mention of HyperMill, this will probably be what we switch to.
a long time ago before Autodesk bought them out I went to a day of showing off of Delcam's PowerMill and it was awesome, nothing like Gibbscam.
Gibbs is really old and clunky.

i wouldnt recommend hypermill. if you're going with that class of a package, NX is MUCH better at very similar price.

5 axis Fidia guy · Nov 10, 2022

empower said:
i wouldnt recommend hypermill. if you're going with that class of a package, NX is MUCH better at very similar price.

What is Hypermill's forte in your opinion?

empower · Nov 10, 2022

5 axis Fidia guy said:
What is Hypermill's forte in your opinion?

their collision avoidance/model awareness is prob the best out there capability wise, but also can be quirky - the feedback when it fails to calculate is not helpful at all, so most times you just have to try to change a bunch of shit to find the error. but once you do, its very powerful - as can be best seen in the basketball net demo video, as well as the high heel shoe demo video.

5 axis Fidia guy · Nov 11, 2022

empower said:
their collision avoidance/model awareness is prob the best out there capability wise, but also can be quirky - the feedback when it fails to calculate is not helpful at all, so most times you just have to try to change a bunch of shit to find the error. but once you do, its very powerful - as can be best seen in the basketball net demo video, as well as the high heel shoe demo video.

I am very familiar with those videos, I worked for a bit with the man who programmed the shoe while setting up our machine. I asked his quite honestly if Hypermill could do anything that Powermill can't, his response was "If you are good in Powermill, there really is no reason to change". I trust his experience since he's familiar with quite a handful of cam systems, and he's one of the most brilliant guys I know. I do have a sour taste in my mouth with Autodesk, but it's not the fault of Powermill, while it's lasts, it's still one of the best out there.

Dan B · Nov 11, 2022

5 axis Fidia guy said:
I do have a sour taste in my mouth with Autodesk, but it's not the fault of Powermill, while it's lasts, it's still one of the best out there.

From my own personal experience it's magnitudes better than when Delcam was around. That was a shit show.
After almost 30 years with WorkNC we're moving to PowerMill. Our experience with SolidCAD (the Autodesk reseller in our area) has been absolutely great. I have no complaints so far. Hope it stays that way.

5 axis Fidia guy · Nov 11, 2022

Dan B said:
From my own personal experience it's magnitudes better than when Delcam was around. That was a shit show.
After almost 30 years with WorkNC we're moving to PowerMill. Our experience with SolidCAD (the Autodesk reseller in our area) has been absolutely great. I have no complaints so far. Hope it stays that way.

WHAT? you used to rip on me for talking highly of Powermill.

empower · Nov 11, 2022

5 axis Fidia guy said:
I am very familiar with those videos, I worked for a bit with the man who programmed the shoe while setting up our machine. I asked his quite honestly if Hypermill could do anything that Powermill can't, his response was "If you are good in Powermill, there really is no reason to change". I trust his experience since he's familiar with quite a handful of cam systems, and he's one of the most brilliant guys I know. I do have a sour taste in my mouth with Autodesk, but it's not the fault of Powermill, while it's lasts, it's still one of the best out there.

i dont think there's anything about either of the big CAM softwares that just blows everything else out of the water, so i agree with that guy. mostly comes down to personal preference. after trying most of the common packages, i prefer NX due to native CAD and superb stability.

Dan B · Nov 14, 2022

5 axis Fidia guy said:
WHAT? you used to rip on me for talking highly of Powermill.

Ha ha, I probably did. But times have changed. WorkNC has stagnated, so our ridiculously high maintenance fees are getting us nothing. And more importantly, WorkNC does not have an API. We need that to move forward.

empower · Nov 14, 2022

Dan B said:
Ha ha, I probably did. But times have changed. WorkNC has stagnated, so our ridiculously high maintenance fees are getting us nothing. And more importantly, WorkNC does not have an API. We need that to move forward.

edit: i seen't it before you deleted!

Dan B · Nov 14, 2022

empower said:
edit: i seen't it before you deleted!

Yeah, I said too much. I'll talk about it more later.

empower · Nov 14, 2022

Dan B said:
Yeah, I said too much. I'll talk about it more later.

imma hold you to it!

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