New (to me) VMC time.

Was looking for some suggestions for used VMCs. Looking for something in the VF3 or Vm-20i size range. I thought I was sold on a haas VF3SSYT but I have been reading tons of negative feedback on their support as of late as well as outrageous parts prices. I’m willing to spend around $50,000, I’ll find a bargain somewhere. I’m just looking for advice on which machine to find a bargain for.

Don’t tell me that Doosan is the best but I’ll need to spend 100,000$. If Doosan is the best I will find one for 50k.

Anyways. I do work mostly with aluminum, but will routinely do some facing and milling on 1018 also.

3 axis is all I need for now but I will be looking for one wired for 4th and 5th in case I ever need(want) it.

Are you stuck on a vertical? Are you capable of vetting a used machine pretty well?

Regularly there are great deals on early 2000's Japanese VMC's and HMC's. very clean, very high end 400MM HMC's from the late 90's pop up every now and then for a steal. 400mm HMC with a 30-60 tool magazine is same footprint as a typical 4020 VMC. When you get into the 100-300 tool mags they get pretty bulky.

I wouldn't say no to anything Mori-Seiki, Makino, Kitamura or Okuma. A 20 year old higher shelf machine from any of those builders will still smoke a brand new SS Haas in every possible way.

You'll find that $50k will go really far with these machines. The big boys with deep pockets that run high end iron aren't buying 20 year old machines. Many little guys get scared of potential repair costs associated with a machine that cost a quarter mil 2 decades ago. They like the appearance of a snuggly safety net that Mother Haas presents. The high end machines are generally very well built. When you find one, do your research. Call a spindle rebuilder and ask what a worse case scenario looks like for that model. (It's usually same or less than a Haas spindle BTW). Buy private party. No dealers, no exceptions. You will get fucked buying from a dealer.

Sometimes you might find some insane deals on machines with problems. Sometimes machines sell for nothing at auctions just because of timing or economic worries. There was a local aerospace auction like that recently. I just wanted a rockwell hardness tester in the auction. Got it for $87. Spent another $1000 in that auction on nice 4th's, 300+ Cat40 toolholders and a bunch of other stuff. Took everything I had not to throw down some bids on the Makino A81 that sold for $16k. Some other solid VMC's sold for less than $300 a piece.

Buy smart.

Are you saying you think a 20 year old Mori seiki, Okuma, Makino etc… will bring 50k? Doesn’t have to be vertical. But I have never used a horizontal.

If you have the space, a horizontal is fine, and can be more versatile. But with a 20+ year old machine be prepared to replace screws, thrust bearings, linear rails or turcite, etc. if you want to hold a tolerance, especially if it has box ways.

Yeah I don’t plan on going that old. I’ll do 2010 or newer for sure. I will find a steal with low hours. Just looking for suggestions on what to watch for. The 2 horizontal mills I looked at took up crap loads of space.

Out of curiosity, is Mitsubishi a higher grade VMC?

mhajicek said:

If you have the space, a horizontal is fine, and can be more versatile. But with a 20+ year old machine be prepared to replace screws, thrust bearings, linear rails or turcite, etc. if you want to hold a tolerance, especially if it has box ways.

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IMO, the above would be true only if one made a poor choice to purchase.

mhajicek said:

If you have the space, a horizontal is fine, and can be more versatile. But with a 20+ year old machine be prepared to replace screws, thrust bearings, linear rails or turcite, etc. if you want to hold a tolerance, especially if it has box ways.

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Blanket statements like that are not true.

My nicest machine is a Makino from 1989 and I'd pit it against any of the best machines of today from any builder for accuracy.

Dakotahm88 said:

Out of curiosity, is Mitsubishi a higher grade VMC?

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I had a 90's MV-40 Mitsubishi. It was a solidly mid-level machine. Like Doosan or such. Mits tech support is super though. They are a very supportive MTB.

Garwood said:

Blanket statements like that are not true.

My nicest machine is a Makino from 1989 and I'd pit it against any of the best machines of today from any builder for accuracy.

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Maybe you got lucky and it was babied, or not run much. I'm not saying every machine of that age will need it, but you have to be prepared for it in case it does. Do you get to run test parts on every used machine you buy?

How about YCM, I see them pared with mori seiki a lot.

mhajicek said:

Maybe you got lucky and it was babied, or not run much. I'm not saying every machine of that age will need it, but you have to be prepared for it in case it does. Do you get to run test parts on every used machine you buy?

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No, I didn't get lucky.

Most machines I have bought from larger companies I trust to tell it to me straight. I have never run a test part.

mhajicek said:

Maybe you got lucky and it was babied, or not run much. I'm not saying every machine of that age will need it, but you have to be prepared for it in case it does. Do you get to run test parts on every used machine you buy?

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When it comes to buying used machines, one makes their own luck by doing a thorough inspection and by being ready to walk away and keep looking. It's not a crap shoot.

Any thoughts on mazak?

I found a 2018 Mazak Smooth VC 500A- 5X. 2816 hours. 12k spindle. Through spindle coolant. Dual probing system. 20” travel on XYZ.

Sells tomorrow, some quick feedback would be appreciated. I think mazak is a Japanese company.

Dakotahm88 said:

I think mazak is a Japanese company.

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On that note, you might want to learn more about what you're getting into before you jump in the deep end.

Max table load 440 lbs

He said you can’t go wrong with a Japanese brand, and named 4, but I remember mazak being Japanese if my memory serves me so I was curious if they are as good as the others.

What I know for sure is a VMC would make my life 10 times easier in many different aspects.

Just looking for advice on where to start.

Dakotahm88 said:

Max table load 440 lbs

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That is pretty normal for a 5 axis machine that size. If you are looking for a VF3 sized VMC, that is not directly comparable. I have had good luck with Mazak Lathes and HMCs in the past at previous jobs, but I have I have no idea on that particular model.

Is that just the load for the 5th axis you think? Like removing the 4th and 5th the table itself should hold more weight?