Renting Machines and Shop Space

Kalispel · Mar 19, 2022

I was approached with a proposition to lease machine time and space within our facility for a 3rd party to operate. We provide the machines, workspace, maintenance, and utilities. They provide the tooling, operators and materials.

My first thought was "absolutely not". I fear the abuse the machines would probably be subjected to. But, the company is reputable so it is not an inexperienced person wanting time on a machine they cannot afford. Right now, we need the machines so it is mute anyway.

I keep thinking there might be a viable a business model for leasing production capacity.

Have any of you encountered this?

Milland · Mar 19, 2022

The topic comes up on PM every so often. I think the consensus is to just offer a good price to do the work for them, otherwise issues of insurance coverage, liability, damage to machines, access when you need them, etc. all point to "no".

I could see it if you're in a place where just selling out makes sense. Even if it's a little early, if the price is right...

CITIZEN F16 · Mar 19, 2022

Milland said:
The topic comes up on PM every so often. I think the consensus is to just offer a good price to do the work for them, otherwise issues of insurance coverage, liability, damage to machines, access when you need them, etc. all point to "no".

I could see it if you're in a place where just selling out makes sense. Even if it's a little early, if the price is right...

My thoughts exactly, nothing to add.

mhajicek · Mar 19, 2022

What's your recourse when they damage your machine? When they say "It was always that way"?

dana gear · Mar 19, 2022

RUN...the other direction from a deal like this, Nothing but problems. My 2 cents for what it's worth.

john.k · Mar 20, 2022

Yep,if someone gets hurt ,you will lose everything to lawyers .

CITIZEN F16 · Mar 21, 2022

Also how many people treat other people's property as good as their own when they have nothing to lose, very few.
What happens if that crazy shop class instructor shows up who tries insane feeds and speeds? I forget what section that thread was in.

Antarctica · Mar 21, 2022

The terms

"Drive it like a rental!"

and

"Beat it like a rented mule"

come to mind....

Kalispel · Mar 21, 2022

The sentiment here matches my first thoughts.

Milland · Mar 21, 2022

Kalispel said:
The sentiment here matches my first thoughts.

Did this company give you a rationale for why they wanted to do the work, not have you do it?

jccaclimber · Mar 21, 2022

Not really the same question, but I've seen this a couple times in the past, all in very limited cases.

The first was a case where we wanted to redevelop a process we hadn't run for a decade and needed a nice rigid horizontal. We grabbed the tooling and the last guy in the plant that had run the job and went to a nearby shop that had machinery capable of handling it. We paid them a predetermined rate for an afternoon of machine time, set up our tools in the holders, and handed it to their employee to actually run the machine. Our guy was giving step by step directions, but only they touched their machine.

A prior time we proposed having engineers run their (manual) machines the suggestion was that they would sell us a block of time (in their shop, with their machinists, not ours) at a discount, but if we didn't show up to use it then we still had to pay.

You'll notice that neither of these options involved anyone touching a machine unless they work at the place that owns the machine.

I have been allowed to run the machines in two of the many shops I've done work with, but those were strictly personal arrangements between me and the owner, not something involving my employer.

Plane Parts · Mar 21, 2022

Don't do it. There was an attempted sting by ATF in my region where the ATF sent out goons to "rent" shops and machines so they could make AR15 lowers. YOU will be the one holding the bag if they make something illegal. AND, if the rip off their arm, YOU are liable. It's just not worth it. As others have said make the parts for them.

john.k · Mar 22, 2022

If I was broke and scratching for the shop rent and machine payments ,Id do it..........Bit like asking If Id rent out an old crawler crane plastered with WHS improvement notices.....yes,I have done it when I had nothing to lose....

TeachMePlease · Mar 22, 2022

Antarctica said:
The terms

"Drive it like a rental!"

and

"Beat it like a rented mule"

come to mind....

Like this:

Rented Tesla Takes Wild Jump - YouTube

mhajicek · Mar 22, 2022

Hmm. Put a solid carbide shank in a toolholder, and I bet you could program a drill cycle for setting rivets. Oh, you had ceramic bearings? Oops.

Kalispel · Mar 22, 2022

Milland said:
Did this company give you a rationale for why they wanted to do the work, not have you do it?

They know we don’t want the work. And I think they are controlling.

We focus on our products. We make inventory, ship same day and make replenishment stock on our schedule. We do not want to be slaved to the customers’ schedules. If we want to leave for a couple weeks, we just go. The place runs just fine without us. It requires a completely different skill set and employee profile to do high-risk job shop work.

I was simply thinking through the possibility. It is all about money to me. I am not opposed to putting up a spec building and putting machines in it for someone to lease. I don’t mind maintaining the building or equipment. I’d even run their office functions for them.

People lease buildings everywhere. The tools are another issue for all the reasons mentioned here and more. I simply wondered if someone has seen is a business model that works. It cannot be much different than the folks who write loans on new machines.

CITIZEN F16 · Mar 22, 2022

I found the thread I referenced earlier. What happens if this guy wanted to rent time in your shop? I think if you charged him $1,000 an hour he could easily do more damage than that.

Instructor approves cutting steel at 2000sfm

Kalispel · Mar 22, 2022

CITIZEN F16 said:
I found the thread I referenced earlier. What happens if this guy wanted to rent time in your shop? I think if you charged him $1,000 an hour he could easily do more damage than that.

Instructor approves cutting steel at 2000sfm

I have done more damage than that in a split second. We all know it can happen very easily.

The only way is if the lease terms make the leasee responsible. Trouble is the machine can be mortally wounded and still look OK.

I have already surrendered on the idea.

CITIZEN F16 · Mar 22, 2022

Kalispel said:
I have done more damage than that in a split second. We all know it happen very easily.

The only way is if the lease terms make the leasee responsible. Trouble is the machine can be mortally wounded and still look OK.

I have already surrendered on the idea.

Exactly, and if the guy doesn't pay for repairs what judge would understand that the crash the guy caused did $10,000 in damage? I am a decent B grade tech and my last job punching a clock I worked in a shop with a lot of the latest Swiss screw machines, a screw up on waiting codes could generate up to a $5k repair bill from a factory tech to fix a
crash involving the sub spindle. The owner was lucky as I would come in on weekends to repair the damage at a measly $28 an hour for time and a half or double time over 25 years ago. I had keys and took lots of breaks but he got $5k+ of work done for $1,000 to $1,500 so win win. CNC Swiss screw machines tend to be very fragile.

TeachMePlease · Mar 23, 2022

CITIZEN F16 said:
Exactly, and if the guy doesn't pay for repairs what judge would understand that the crash the guy caused did $10,000 in damage? I am a decent B grade tech and my last job punching a clock I worked in a shop with a lot of the latest Swiss screw machines, a screw up on waiting codes could generate up to a $5k repair bill from a factory tech to fix a
crash involving the sub spindle. The owner was lucky as I would come in on weekends to repair the damage at a measly $28 an hour for time and a half or double time over 25 years ago. I had keys and took lots of breaks but he got $5k+ of work done for $1,000 to $1,500 so win win. CNC Swiss screw machines tend to be very fragile.

$5K?

Amateurs....

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