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Posted by Brad Arnold on January 29, 01 (from WWWMachine Shop forum)
I have a question. I have always spent my time creating gadgets and gizmos and hickenflickers, some of which do not inflict bodily harm. Some of these creations are actually quite useful and I believe would benefit this trade. My problem is, I have no connections with marketers or someone who is not going to rip me off. Last year, out of frustration with current go-carts on the market, I invented a different type of machine. I contacted some suppliers who told me that my machine was like nothing they had ever seen, and told me also it was a good idea. They said yes they would market it, as long I had $2 million in liability insurance. I told them I would call back, in about, oh, let's say, 10,000 years. I also have numerous other little things I have invented that would be a help to the machine industry. I do not trust these "invention submission companies." I have heard about people giving plans to Sears to see if they would market their product. Sears would indeed return their correspondence, but with a letter stating that the product was not economically feasible or some other garbage. Two years later, coincidentally of course, that product would somehow become economically feasable and appear on a shelf at Sears, and the true inventor would be up S.crick. If anyone can share some knowledge of this suject with me, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Still burning my lips with chips.
Brad Arnold
Posted by John O
I recently got a patent on a tool. It also was a PITA, but I'm glad I did it. Now, I'm in the process of having it manufactured, at my expense, and am going to try to market it myself. There is a book called "Patent It Yourself", which I recommend. You may find it in the library, or you can buy it for about $50. It is possible to do it yourself. The application fee is about $350, and if it issued, that will be another $605. Not bad, when that stops anyone else from making your invention without your permission.
I had an offer to license it, but it was exclusive, and left me on the outside looking in. This is my baby, and I wasn't ready to give it up. I have some doubts at the moment about its marketability, and some fear that it will be rejected when I try to sell it at a big convention of woodturners (it is a new woodturning tool). But I will be there. It will make them think, because it does partially solve a big problem, namely dust.
Talking about an idea with a company without even filing a patent application is at least risky. A reputable company may refuse to talk. Read the book.
Posted by Smitty
I am impressed and pleased by reading everyones responses to this topic. I just started a business and with it were a few ideas for some of my own products. I thouht of doing that for the sole purpose of having a few extra bucks come in each month, which is how its working so far. Hopefully I'll get a good idea that nets a fair sum some day to.
About the cost of a patent. I had a lawyer tell me IF I came up with something to patent it would cost over $100,000 to patent it and that inorder to be protected overseas I would need another patent that would cost over $250,000 and only be good in something like 12 countries. I never pursed it further and switched lawyers. One of you guys said something about it (a patent) only costing $1100, is that recent? Just curious!
Have Fun!
Smitty
Posted by D. Thomas
My patent cost about $1,600 in 1985 and that included a patent search, a patent lawyer doing most of the work and a professional graphics person doing the drawings. If I had nothing better to do I could have done it all myself for even less. Having said that, it does depend somewhat on the complexity of your item and how many "claims" are rejected and have to be resubmitted. My patent involved a realatively simple device www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US04603717__
Probably cost a bit more now 16 years later, but obviously your first lawyer was FOS.
Posted by Ron Oman
Enjoyed the previous discussions on inventions, licensing and marketing pitfalls so much that I'm compelled to share my experience on the subject and maybe provide the boost that we all need from time to time.
In the late 1980's I invented an aircraft engine preheater that uses liquid fuel, weighs 6.5 lbs. and collapses into it self for storage. I did all the normal things that inventors do, like spend lots of money on protyping and experimenting with different designs and materials and neglected my family every evening and weekend. But my family and I pulled through it ok and the preheater was born. Once the field testing of the final version was complete and test the marketing proved that pilots would buy it for a given amount of money, I did a patent search. In fact I did two searches about 4 months apart. Each search took me 3 + days working 6 to 8 hours each day to complete. This may seem like a long time but you never want to rush a patent search, there are some tricks to doing it right. Then I tried to write my own patent using "Patent it Yourself" by Pressman. I found out in short order that I'm not a writer so I hired a patent engineer to write it. Two years and $2800 later my patent was issued. After everything was said and done we were able to hold on to 13 patent claims.
While the patenting process was in motion I was manufacturing and marketing the preheater to the best of my abilities, at least that's what I thought. But everything changed when I discovered a little 118 page book called "GOOD IDEA NOW WHAT" by Howard Bronson, a Warner Book, Edition, copyright 1986,ISBN 0-446-39094-1. This little book is without a dought the best eye opener book for us inventors that we could hope for. Get one now guys/gals it will save you lots of headaches and give you a fighting chance at making your invention a success. Another must have is the little known manual called "INVENTION LICENSING AND ROYALTY RATE STRUCTURE" by Paul H. Lindenberger, PO Box 8145 Pembroke Pines Branch, Pembroke Pines, Florida 33084, (305) 962-2359. These two books along with Patent it Your Self by Pressman have been my main references. Just to give you an idea what can happen if you apply the proper marketing techniques outlined in Bronson's book. We were fielding 5 to 7 faxes along with 8 to 10 calls per week regarding the preheater. After applying some of Bronson's ideas we started getting 10 to 25 faxes a day and 10 to 15 call per day for about 4 months, then it tapered off abit. This all directly relates to more sales and profit if you have done your home work in the manufacturing area. I didn't have my manufacturing process tuned up all that well back then so my profits were less than they could have been, but I'm learning all the time. I think I have enough material to write a book on manufacturing pitfalls, that is if I were a writer, which I'm not.
Another important thing to remember is don't be afraid to discuss your idea with a trusted friend or someone that has expertise in a field associated with your idea. I don't mean to say you should discuss your idea with anybody that will listen, but you can learn alot just by listening and observing how friends or experts react to your idea or your prototype. Very few inventions these days are the brain child of a sole individual. Also, I would guess that 99% of the people that have an idea or have heard about good ideas don't have what it takes to follow through with it. As some of you know it requires a tremendous amount of effort to take an invention to market. There are some exceptions to this rule of thumb. One of them being that if you invented a cure for Cancer, Aids etc. you would have to be very careful who you confided in because you are talking about an idea that is worth BILLONS, be careful with multi million dollar ideas too.
If a company or individual offers to buy your invention, be realistic about what it is worth but don't be foolish either. There's this guy near me that invented a charcoal starting device. Like most inventors he knew this was his golden parachute and he would never have to work again. Coleman (the outdoor camping gear outfit) offered him $250,000 for his invention. When he asked them about the manufacturing and marketing plan he was told they were going to shelf the charcoal starter because it competed with one of their other products. He didn't want his invention put on the shelf so he didn't sell it to them, but he didn't manufacture or market it himself either. So the moral is, be realistic about what is best for you in the long run.
Food for thought: What is the single most important invention in the world?
[This message has been edited by Admin5 (edited 02-01-2001).]
I have a question. I have always spent my time creating gadgets and gizmos and hickenflickers, some of which do not inflict bodily harm. Some of these creations are actually quite useful and I believe would benefit this trade. My problem is, I have no connections with marketers or someone who is not going to rip me off. Last year, out of frustration with current go-carts on the market, I invented a different type of machine. I contacted some suppliers who told me that my machine was like nothing they had ever seen, and told me also it was a good idea. They said yes they would market it, as long I had $2 million in liability insurance. I told them I would call back, in about, oh, let's say, 10,000 years. I also have numerous other little things I have invented that would be a help to the machine industry. I do not trust these "invention submission companies." I have heard about people giving plans to Sears to see if they would market their product. Sears would indeed return their correspondence, but with a letter stating that the product was not economically feasible or some other garbage. Two years later, coincidentally of course, that product would somehow become economically feasable and appear on a shelf at Sears, and the true inventor would be up S.crick. If anyone can share some knowledge of this suject with me, I would appreciate it. Thanks. Still burning my lips with chips.
Brad Arnold
Posted by John O
I recently got a patent on a tool. It also was a PITA, but I'm glad I did it. Now, I'm in the process of having it manufactured, at my expense, and am going to try to market it myself. There is a book called "Patent It Yourself", which I recommend. You may find it in the library, or you can buy it for about $50. It is possible to do it yourself. The application fee is about $350, and if it issued, that will be another $605. Not bad, when that stops anyone else from making your invention without your permission.
I had an offer to license it, but it was exclusive, and left me on the outside looking in. This is my baby, and I wasn't ready to give it up. I have some doubts at the moment about its marketability, and some fear that it will be rejected when I try to sell it at a big convention of woodturners (it is a new woodturning tool). But I will be there. It will make them think, because it does partially solve a big problem, namely dust.
Talking about an idea with a company without even filing a patent application is at least risky. A reputable company may refuse to talk. Read the book.
Posted by Smitty
I am impressed and pleased by reading everyones responses to this topic. I just started a business and with it were a few ideas for some of my own products. I thouht of doing that for the sole purpose of having a few extra bucks come in each month, which is how its working so far. Hopefully I'll get a good idea that nets a fair sum some day to.
About the cost of a patent. I had a lawyer tell me IF I came up with something to patent it would cost over $100,000 to patent it and that inorder to be protected overseas I would need another patent that would cost over $250,000 and only be good in something like 12 countries. I never pursed it further and switched lawyers. One of you guys said something about it (a patent) only costing $1100, is that recent? Just curious!
Have Fun!
Smitty
Posted by D. Thomas
My patent cost about $1,600 in 1985 and that included a patent search, a patent lawyer doing most of the work and a professional graphics person doing the drawings. If I had nothing better to do I could have done it all myself for even less. Having said that, it does depend somewhat on the complexity of your item and how many "claims" are rejected and have to be resubmitted. My patent involved a realatively simple device www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US04603717__
Probably cost a bit more now 16 years later, but obviously your first lawyer was FOS.
Posted by Ron Oman
Enjoyed the previous discussions on inventions, licensing and marketing pitfalls so much that I'm compelled to share my experience on the subject and maybe provide the boost that we all need from time to time.
In the late 1980's I invented an aircraft engine preheater that uses liquid fuel, weighs 6.5 lbs. and collapses into it self for storage. I did all the normal things that inventors do, like spend lots of money on protyping and experimenting with different designs and materials and neglected my family every evening and weekend. But my family and I pulled through it ok and the preheater was born. Once the field testing of the final version was complete and test the marketing proved that pilots would buy it for a given amount of money, I did a patent search. In fact I did two searches about 4 months apart. Each search took me 3 + days working 6 to 8 hours each day to complete. This may seem like a long time but you never want to rush a patent search, there are some tricks to doing it right. Then I tried to write my own patent using "Patent it Yourself" by Pressman. I found out in short order that I'm not a writer so I hired a patent engineer to write it. Two years and $2800 later my patent was issued. After everything was said and done we were able to hold on to 13 patent claims.
While the patenting process was in motion I was manufacturing and marketing the preheater to the best of my abilities, at least that's what I thought. But everything changed when I discovered a little 118 page book called "GOOD IDEA NOW WHAT" by Howard Bronson, a Warner Book, Edition, copyright 1986,ISBN 0-446-39094-1. This little book is without a dought the best eye opener book for us inventors that we could hope for. Get one now guys/gals it will save you lots of headaches and give you a fighting chance at making your invention a success. Another must have is the little known manual called "INVENTION LICENSING AND ROYALTY RATE STRUCTURE" by Paul H. Lindenberger, PO Box 8145 Pembroke Pines Branch, Pembroke Pines, Florida 33084, (305) 962-2359. These two books along with Patent it Your Self by Pressman have been my main references. Just to give you an idea what can happen if you apply the proper marketing techniques outlined in Bronson's book. We were fielding 5 to 7 faxes along with 8 to 10 calls per week regarding the preheater. After applying some of Bronson's ideas we started getting 10 to 25 faxes a day and 10 to 15 call per day for about 4 months, then it tapered off abit. This all directly relates to more sales and profit if you have done your home work in the manufacturing area. I didn't have my manufacturing process tuned up all that well back then so my profits were less than they could have been, but I'm learning all the time. I think I have enough material to write a book on manufacturing pitfalls, that is if I were a writer, which I'm not.
Another important thing to remember is don't be afraid to discuss your idea with a trusted friend or someone that has expertise in a field associated with your idea. I don't mean to say you should discuss your idea with anybody that will listen, but you can learn alot just by listening and observing how friends or experts react to your idea or your prototype. Very few inventions these days are the brain child of a sole individual. Also, I would guess that 99% of the people that have an idea or have heard about good ideas don't have what it takes to follow through with it. As some of you know it requires a tremendous amount of effort to take an invention to market. There are some exceptions to this rule of thumb. One of them being that if you invented a cure for Cancer, Aids etc. you would have to be very careful who you confided in because you are talking about an idea that is worth BILLONS, be careful with multi million dollar ideas too.
If a company or individual offers to buy your invention, be realistic about what it is worth but don't be foolish either. There's this guy near me that invented a charcoal starting device. Like most inventors he knew this was his golden parachute and he would never have to work again. Coleman (the outdoor camping gear outfit) offered him $250,000 for his invention. When he asked them about the manufacturing and marketing plan he was told they were going to shelf the charcoal starter because it competed with one of their other products. He didn't want his invention put on the shelf so he didn't sell it to them, but he didn't manufacture or market it himself either. So the moral is, be realistic about what is best for you in the long run.
Food for thought: What is the single most important invention in the world?
[This message has been edited by Admin5 (edited 02-01-2001).]