Speed Reduction 3 phase

I am asking for a bit of help from more knowledgeable on reducing the speed of a driven fan.
I have a Reliance / Baldor 3 phase, 2 HP, model # P14H1446, RPM is 1725.
It came with a Tigear #30A25R14 30 to 1 reducer & a cheap inverter.
The reducer is rather large & heavy by itself, the motor came with a VFD, I bought all 3 pieces as a package deal.

What I would like to accomplish is get rid of the Tigear due to the weight & gear lube being above my head, so either
I purchase, but most likely build some type of a belt drive system to drive an actual Aermotor 8' fan. Going the route of building a pulley system.

This is where I am asking for some ideas on how to actually accomplish my project, I BELIEVE I need to have an approximate
final driven RPM of approximately 50 RPM, if I get close to that I can decrease the speed of the motor with the inverter.

Anyone with ideas of able to draw some type of setup with 2 pulleys or am I going to need 3 or 4 ??
Motor will sit in a vertical position to keep it simple I'm thinking.
On the high note I am even willing to compensate for some help.


Looking online I get a driven 2" pulley along with a ? 69" driven = that doesn't look right to me = I DON'T know

https://wcftexas.com/
They sell ceiling fans but are way out of my price range, ($5000.00 range) and they have not responded to any of my questions & I have sent repeated messages for information. With that type of customer service I don't believe I would or will do business with them.

Why would you think the weight of this gearbox is of more concern as the weight of the belt drive
Why would the grease be a problem It is contained inside that gearbox
A belt drive 30:1 would be much much larger Needs 2 steps

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

Why would you think the weight of this gearbox is of more concern as the weight of the belt drive
Why would the grease be a problem It is contained inside that gearbox
A belt drive 30:1 would be much much larger Needs 2 steps

Peter

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Because the weight of the gear box is pretty darn heavy & I would think something made from some aluminum plates & aluminum pulleys would be lighter.

My concern is I DON'T want to experience an oil leak above my head & inside my house
(the gear box is filled with oil not grease)
I said I was or would be open to several pulleys.

The concern is oil, no the gear box is NOT filled with grease, I also contacted the manufacture of said
gear box and they also have a specific oil (yes their special spec. oil) it also said on the site that the oil never
needs to be changed.

So Peter do you have a design or cad drawing that would accomplish my small dilemma ?

The whole assembly would be hanging from a 5-3/4" x 15" ridge beam, other than lifting it into position
& a possible oil leak would be my concerns and we all know seals NEVER FAIL
As far as the weight I'm pretty sure this beam will hold it, 2x4 is 8' long showing how out of scale a fan
this large will be, and it will be about 12 feet up off the floor.

Anything else I can give you ??

Easiest and cheapest solution would be a drip tray under the gearbox
But if you want to play the smallest solution would be the use of multi-V belts
You would need 4 wheels so 2 belts I assume
No I do not make a caddrawing nor do the calculation

I have 4 gearboxes larger than that also with lube oil running fans in my shop for the last 3-1/2 years . . . no problems so far.

Sounds like you are convinced on using belts. Rule of thumb for V-belts is no more than 3:1 drop in reduction unless you include a backside idler, but this assumes you don’t have a reversible summer vs winter rotation. This is based on belt wrap and a large pulley next to a small pulley dramatically reduces belt wrap on the small pulley.

With backside idlers you can probably get away with 6:1 which would require a minimum of 3 reduction stages Which would afford roughly 4:1 per stage. The stages closer to the motor carrying the higher speeds / lower torques are better suited to higher reduction ratios.

Personally I would stick with the Tigear . . . they are decent economy gearboxes.

The poly-v-belts can go to a much bigger ratio Standard to a 20:1 I have read
The 30;1 ratio asked for could be even possible with 2 wheels and a idler with specials But a smaller package would be 4 wheels I imagen
But if you have something better to do I totally agree with Motion Guru

stick with the gear box, or find a new motor that is a low rpm model, pulleys down to 50 from 1740 is a pain.

I would guess you would need in the range of at least 100-200 rpms to make it work well. at 50 id be guessing its not pushing any air and just making it spin.

BT Fabrication said:

stick with the gear box, or find a new motor that is a low rpm model, pulleys down to 50 from 1740 is a pain.

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Life is a pain

BT Fabrication said:

I would guess you would need in the range of at least 100-200 rpms to make it work well. at 50 id be guessing its not pushing any air and just making it spin.

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Well if it's spinning it's pushing air. Here is a screen shot of some information. I think your guess might be off on the RPM needed. 100 to 200 RPM for an 8 foot diameter blade, you been in the juice this morning already ?

vonleyser said:

Life is a pain

Well if it's spinning it's pushing air. Here is a screen shot of some information. I think your guess might be off on the RPM needed. 100 to 200 RPM for an 8 foot diameter blade, you been in the juice this morning already ?

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200 rpms on an 8 ft blade isnt that fast. run 163 rpms here all the time on a 12 ft wide blade big ass fan.

you have a nice gear reducer with no signs of leaks I can see, and you want to F**** around with belts? (X2!)

hmm...who's been in the juice this morning?...

1256 feet per minute is 50 RPM blade tip speed. What is normal?

In regards to grease vs. oil: Grease can and does break down over time as It's essentially an oil with a thickening agent, so if it breaks down and you have a bad seal, you'll still have a leak. Also consider it's up in a hotter environment where it won't see as much attention. If it was me, I'd use the gearbox and if drips are a concern the above solution about using a catch tray would be best (simple like a backing sheet), then just use whatever lube the mfr. recommends. Pulley reduction would be fine too, but you'll need more than one set of pulleys to do it right. There's no "one way" to do it of course. It's more about what you have, what you want to or can get, and how much labor you want to put into it.

Either solution won't be maintenance free. If the weight is an issue, it might be a good idea to put in a couple eye bolts for a block-n-tackle or winch to stay there or get hooked up when needed so you can raise and lower the whole thing rather that trying to do everything overhead. Done right it would support the weight + some for safety, and you can add a board or plate to pin it too overhead to keep it from spinning.

vonleyser said:

but most likely build some type of a belt drive system to drive an actual Aermotor 8' fan. Going the route of building a pulley system.

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An Aeromotor windmill fan? If so, I'd mount motor on floor, use bevel gears for a vertical shaft up to rafter, long ass belt, maybe a jackshaft or 2, paint aluminum spoked pulleys gloss black with gold pinstriping, steampunk that thing!

BT Fabrication said:

200 rpms on an 8 ft blade isnt that fast. run 163 rpms here all the time on a 12 ft wide blade big ass fan.

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Your space where you have your fan located is probably a lot larger also, guess I'll buy some type
of tachometer and go find some big fans to measure.

cyanidekid said:

you have a nice gear reducer with no signs of leaks I can see, and you want to F**** around with belts? (X2!)

hmm...who's been in the juice this morning?...

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I'm retired & am in the juice as often as possible.

You say a Tigear is a nice reducer, could be I guess, it's funny when I split the reducer off the motor
there was 1/2 cup of oil that was in the Lovejoy coupling area
How did the oil get there ? Did some unknown maintenance person add oil to keep it lubed ?
Guess it's time to check oil level in the gearbox itself now.

dalmatiangirl61 said:

An Aeromotor windmill fan? If so, I'd mount motor on floor, use bevel gears for a vertical shaft up to rafter, long ass belt, maybe a jackshaft or 2, paint aluminum spoked pulleys gloss black with gold pinstriping, steampunk that thing!

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Yes an authentic Aeromotor & I also have the tail section which is HUGE that is also getting attached.
I have seen a limited number of these with the tail attached.

Now that's an idea
I just found a picture of I'm guess a welding positioner it looks, so maybe mount motor and current speed reducer in a low position & easy to check, speed will be reduced to a nice slow RPM up the wall with some nice shafting from where my wife works mounted in some colorful pillow blocks bearings



Steam Punk Hum maybe some heavy duty kitchen cabinet hinges for the wife also to keep her content
prototype = how the hell am I going to do this ?

1/2 round brass seemed to do the trick = self closing hinges = yes my arms still work, doors work very nice


still need to put inserts in the doors. will the house ever be done in my lifetime = NO

and a lot of you wonder WHY = my house built by ME for ME to MY likes & quirks = something different.
When I started building I thought I could build a house for 40K or so = hahahahaha it has exceeded
my guesstimate by more than 4 times. I have an actual walk in cooler door (not installed yet) for in my utility
room, an old metal clad fire door on rollers for laundry room, 5" x 5" light poles ( 3 supports ) holding up 2
6" x 16" ship docking beams that washed away during Harvey from the Corpus Christi area, spliced together with 1/2" thick plates sandwiched together with (12 pieces) of 1" threaded rod.


YEA I guess you could say STEAM PUNK

I was down to visit Matt yesterday in Needville, he has an old corrugated covered what looks to be an old changing room from possibly an oil drilling site, has a shower room & toilet. Already elevated on huge pieces of pipe he has
graciously donated to me. Already covered in matching tin = won't my wife be thrilled to see that come in the driveway.

Recycling at it's finest

johnoder said:

1256 feet per minute is 50 RPM blade tip speed. What is normal?

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Morning Mr. Oder
I know I'm not normal LOL

I will ask and see if I can get a somewhat knowledgeable response that I can understand, you know me never
have been very good with numbers.
From the Woolen windmill designs, their max seems to be 100 rpm on a smaller diameter fan.
Just kinda going by the seat of my pants.


Hope both you have a great New Year, will stop by with my wife to visit soon.

vonleyser said:

Morning Mr. Oder
I know I'm not normal LOL

I will ask and see if I can get a somewhat knowledgeable response that I can understand, you know me never
have been very good with numbers.
From the Woolen windmill designs, their max seems to be 100 rpm on a smaller diameter fan.
Just kinda going by the seat of my pants.


Hope both you have a great New Year, will stop by with my wife to visit soon.

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Well, without opening even one of those links I can tell you that if a 96" is in the line up we have to notice there is also a flat statement "all fans are adjustable to 100 RPM" - then we have to assume 50 RPM is perfectly okay if one of those unopened links is 8 feet across.