1943 Marvel 8 Restoration

Let me begin by saying that I am aware that some on this site believe the Marvel 8 series saws are junk. However, I was drawn to this saw because of its age, aesthetics, and functionality. I needed a better saw, and I really like older equipment. Besides, I can’t afford new or even slightly used equipment. I have to buy and fix things few others want. As I work on this old equipment, I learn more about how to do machine work, and continue to improve myself and the equipment that I use.

When I picked this saw up, I knew it had serious problems. I saw that the upper wheel flange was gone, the lower blade guides had come apart, and that the general condition of the saw was poor. The owner assured me that the saw ran and was still capable of cutting steel, but what exactly did that mean?

As I began to dissemble the saw, I found more problems that I thought possible. Both the upper and lower band wheels were bad, the blade guides were bad, the lower wheel pinion gear was bad, the lower wheel pinion gear bearing was bad, the carriage bearings had worn grooves in the carriage tracks, the main drive sprocket was worn out, the main drive chain was worn out, the splined drive shaft was badly worn, the splined drive shaft bearing no longer had any splines, the feed worm gear was worn out, the vise ratchet strips would not hold, the table wear strips were worn out, all the ball bearings (saw and motor) needed to be replaced, and the upper wheel shaft was never designed for disassembly and needed to be replaced. All in all, it was a saw that had seen its better days and should probably have been scrapped. If I had to buy new parts from Armstrong Blum I would be better off buying a new saw. I decided I could fix or live with most of the problems, and hoped I could afford to buy what I could not fix or live with. In the paragraphs and posts that follow, I will outline some of what I did to get this saw back to running condition.

I began with the carriage tracks. The carriage bearings had worn grooves that were .020” to .030” deep in the support rails. I mounted the rails on my Bridgeport and, by angling the ram, machined one side at a time. The before and after shots show (although not very well) the improvement.

Next I decided to work on the splined drive shaft and bearing. I began by looking for a female splined insert to bond/solder into the bearing . Apparently Marvel uses an involute spline instead of a common straight (SAE) spline. Unfortunately, it appears that they are the only ones that use involute splines any more. So, I decided to modify the involute splined shaft and turn it into a straight splined shaft. The pictures below show how I recut the splines. I do not have a dividing head, but I have a DRO on my Bridgeport, so I made an indexing plate so that I could cut the splines.
View attachment 89423

After I cut the splines in the drive shaft, I bought a clutch plate for a 10 spline, 1.125” diameter shaft (Chevrolet truck), cut the hub from the clutch plate, bored the drive shaft bearing, and silver soldered the splined hub into the bearing. The bearing and assembly are shown below.

I was able to find a lower band wheel and pinion on eBay for less than half price, so I bought them along with some new blade guides. I was also able to find a worm wheel (that I did not think I could make easily) and a lower blade guide holder at somewhat reasonable prices. I purchased bearings from USA Bearings and Belts (Chinese, but probably made in the SKF factory).

Next I got a local shop to fabricate a new main drive sprocket for me using a water knife (or water jet). After machining the old sprocket off of the hub, turning a shoulder on the hub, and doing some boring and tooth tapering on the new sprocket, I pressed the sprocket onto the old hub. The pictures below show the result. I purchased a new silent chain from Ramsey by way of Kaman.

At some point I purchased another junk Marvel saw. I hoped I could salvage some parts from the Marvel Mark I that I bought to save me some money on the Marvel 8 I was restoring. Unfortunately, the only things I was able to use were the wear strips (not too good), a ratchet strip (OK), and the lower wheel (I made an upper wheel from it).

Beginning with a lower band wheel from the parts saw that I bought, I fabricated a new upper wheel. I cut off all the teeth, reduced the width of the rim (it was made for a 1” blade and the Marvel 8 uses a ¾”blade), reduced the length of both sides of the hub and machined off some of the stiffener spokes/ribs. The results were better than I expected. I did not take a finished picture, but you can see where I started in the picture below.

You can see the finished wheel in the saw in the finished saw pictures.

The pinion gear bearing had nearly .1” of wear on one side, so I decided to bore it and install bronze bushings I bought from McMaster. The picture below shows the boring operation.

I also decided to improve the tooth engagement between the pinion and the lower band wheel. To do that, I machined off .060” from the base of the bearing as shown in the picture below.

I ended up doing a lot of other things to the saw including: changing out the isolation switch/bus fuse box with a breaker box, repairing the broken handwheel, repairing the broken feed pulley guard, installing different wear strips, cleaning up and reinstalling the ratchet strips, building a new upper wheel shaft, installing serpentine belts, making new adjusting screws for the blade guide holders, buying and installing new vise handles, painting everything the original color, repairing the upper blade guard, etc. The result is the saw shown below.

Sure looks like nice work to me - how does it cut?

I just bought a brand new Marvel 8 (mark II - the 45° tilt) and think it's the bees knees...

Hopefully yours is as well and you won't need to do any more work on it!

Fantastic work, that is a beautiful saw. Marvel's are great saws, very useful. There is little you cannot do with one once you adjust your thinking a bit.

The saw cuts very well. The feed belt sometimes slips a little, but I expect that to improve with use.

WOW!

Is it really that old?


I have one just like it as a spare.
Never thrown juice to it yet.
Did pirate the nearly new drive wheel off of it to swap to the newer saw that we run regularly tho.


I was guessing maybe the 50's, I hadn't considered it possibly being a war machine!

This one takes a 1" blade tho.


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Excellent work and a fine looking saw. I like your setup in the mill to cut the splines.

My #8 is from 1917-1923. No way to tell more than that, no serial #'s untill '23. Was originally run off overhead line shaft. Works great, even if it is missing a few parts.
Not near as nice as this one, nice job.

Wow! Fantastic job!

Impressive!

nt1953 said:

I ended up doing a lot of other things to the saw including: changing out the isolation switch/bus fuse box with a breaker box, repairing the broken handwheel, repairing the broken feed pulley guard, installing different wear strips, cleaning up and reinstalling the ratchet strips, building a new upper wheel shaft, installing serpentine belts, making new adjusting screws for the blade guide holders, buying and installing new vise handles, painting everything the original color, repairing the upper blade guard, etc. The result is the saw shown below.
View attachment 89439View attachment 89438View attachment 89437

Click to expand...

Hey buddy, looks great! That was alot of detailed, precision work.
I am trying to rework an old Marvel 8, and the shaft for the lower band wheel is giving me problems as well as the blade shoulder being totally worn away and GONE!
Anyway, nice job and good luck!!

I am glad that someone else has found this to be interesting. I was never satisfied with the design of the lower shaft in my Marvel. It did not allow the wheel to tilt enough to suit me. That could be the reason the lower wheel shoulder is gone. The wheel shoulders are not actually required. Marvel says in the manual that the blade should ride slightly away from the shoulder and that the shoulder is only there to make blade installation easier. Good luck!

Nice job on the restoration 53. I don't know how I missed this thread when it was a new one.

Anyway, I have a Marvel, I think it is a Mark I. When I bought it the thing was in pieces, a base with some of the parts on it and a big crate of parts. I asked the guy who was selling it if he knew if all the parts were there and he told me he had no idea. He had bought it in an auction and never put it together and also had no idea whey it was taken apart in the first place. I know how expensive parts can be for machines like this so I looked as much of the stuff in the crate over and decided to buy it. It has always been my dream to own a Marvel. I can't imagine why someone wouldn't like one.
It took me a few weeks to put the thing together and repair a few things but now I have a nice saw that cuts like a dream.

Question for the OP. Do you run your saw wet or just dry? My saw came with a coolant pump and all the hookups but is missing the pans so I have only run it dry do far.

I wouldn't put that much work into a bandsaw. If you're going to rebuild a machine, at least pick one that does more than saw material up.

I guess I've never really understood why guys get into restoration and polishing shit. Do they know you can make your own stuff if you want to? You don't have to polish someone else's shit.

imagine that.
must not be anyone making any machining blunders today

Nice work. I also have a marvel 8 that I am working on. To John Welden, some folks just like cleaning up machines and working on them. I think to build a nice bandsaw from scrap would be a whole lot more work, and probably turn out a lot shittier than fixing an old saw. Most of us don't have iron foundry in out back yard.

Also, how is cleaning up a saw any different than any other machine? ("It just saws material up"), ok how about you try a few projects with no saw to cut up your material. I use mine daily.