Moilins System24 and associated developments

Molins System24 and associated developments

Molins designed a truly innovative manufacturing system in the 1960s that pulled together a host of new ideas -

Cell based production
High speed multiple spindles for machining Aluminium
Computerised numerical control (but not really CNC in the modern sense)
Standardised pallets for work holding and transport using special conveyors
Hydrostatic bearings for machine tools
IBM software for driving the machines directly from an IBM mainframe
Etc, Etc.

The whole concept was incredibly advanced, and amazingly wide ranging - one of the fore-runners of a modern FMS

You can read some of the background behind this here:

Molins System 24 Machining Centre - Object Wiki

It would be very interesting to hear from anyone who worked on this system, but my particular interest is a film that was made at the time and that I saw, probably in the late 1970s. This covered most of the thinking behind this system and left me very impressed. I hoped to find a copy of this film on Youtube or somewhere similar but have failed. Can anyone help with this?

I know its not great to reply to your own thread, but I thought I would give this one another chance by bumping it up to try to get attention.

I probably didn't help by spelling Molins wrong in the thread heading. Unfortunately I can't change that.

I still haven't found any trace of the film that I am looking for, but I did find a few references to the major patent battle that erupted in the USA between Kearney & Trecker and Cincinnati Milacron on one side and Molins on the other. Molins patents were so relevant and ahead of their time that they covered a lot of the essential elements of a FMS. The US companies were unhappy about paying royalties on what had become a growing and profitable market. Apparently General Motors Corporation, Caterpillar and GE did not fight the patent, and probably worked under licenses. Molins won the legal battle and presumably received significant royalties.

See this for details.
Patent Suit Angers Toolmakers - New York Times

Such a shame that Molins did not persist with their work in this field.

Strangely enough, I was working for Ferranti, Dalkeith at the time, but more as an observer on the sidelines being involved with the SCOPE specifiable co-ordinate positioning system or paper tape input point to point nc controller

.The original stand alone machine as far as I remember used the Ferranti Mk4 continuous path controller that made use of a four track phase modulated 1/4 inch magnetic tape for input that was produced by the Ferranti computer centre from profile data supplied by the customer. ( I believe the British aerospace industry had their own facility)

During a very recent clearout, I came across the Molins literature about the system handed out at the International Machine Tool Exhibition at Olympia, London at that time. Upon finding this, I had intended to post a thread on the subject. Your post has jogged my senior memory to try to find out what I did with it & see if I can add anything to this thread.

I understood that it was christened system 24 as they claimed that the majority of components required to be manufactured could be encompassed by a 24 inch cube ( 3axis each 24 inches). I don't know if this was true.

It was intended that the system should be manned by operatives on one shift daily to load pallets & attend to tooling requirements attended by a minimal staff during the other 2 shifts.

Regards, Don

I am pretty sure the Science Museum has a Molins System 24 because they feature it in their excellent book Making of the Modern World.

Quote: This book presents the development of science and technology through one hundred key inventions selected from the Science Museum...

Here are some rather poor photos from the book, hopefully readable? After clicking on thumbnail, there should be an icon to further enlarge the image...

Don -

I would certainly be interested in that literature and what you can remember of the system. Ferranti control certainly sounds correct, although I think IBM tried to design that part of the system as well, but didn't fare very well. They were probably the prime suppliers for the mainframe parts of the system.

Peter S -

That is an interesting extract and has a few details that are not in the on-line account.

------------------------

One of my memories of the system was that Molins wanted very high speed spindles, way faster than anything used for metal machining at the time. This is understandable because they designed System24 primarily for Aluminium parts, even down to preferring specific alloys. They couldn't get the accuracy and speed they wanted by conventional methods so they designed a turbine driven spindle unit. Beyond that my memory is very hazey.

Bill. Am away from home at the moment, but will see if I can find it on my return. Surprised to come across it after all this time so put it aside for later. Problem is I cannot remember quite where I put it.

Don

Molins System 24

billmac said:

Molins designed a truly innovative manufacturing system in the 1960s that pulled together a host of new ideas -

Cell based production
High speed multiple spindles for machining Aluminium
Computerised numerical control (but not really CNC in the modern sense)
Standardised pallets for work holding and transport using special conveyors
Hydrostatic bearings for machine tools
IBM software for driving the machines directly from an IBM mainframe
Etc, Etc.

The whole concept was incredibly advanced, and amazingly wide ranging - one of the fore-runners of a modern FMS

You can read some of the background behind this here:

Molins System 24 Machining Centre - Object Wiki

It would be very interesting to hear from anyone who worked on this system, but my particular interest is a film that was made at the time and that I saw, probably in the late 1970s. This covered most of the thinking behind this system and left me very impressed. I hoped to find a copy of this film on Youtube or somewhere similar but have failed. Can anyone help with this?

Click to expand...

Hello.
I was lazily browsing this Sunday afternoon and bumped into your message. If you are still interested in Molins System 24 I can help as I was intimately involved in the project from 1968 starting in St Mary Cray, then Deptford, through it's time at IBM. Rochester, MN, until closure of the project in 1974. Would love to talk about it.
John.

billmac said:

Molins designed a truly innovative manufacturing system in the 1960s that pulled together a host of new ideas -

Cell based production
High speed multiple spindles for machining Aluminium
Computerised numerical control (but not really CNC in the modern sense)
Standardised pallets for work holding and transport using special conveyors
Hydrostatic bearings for machine tools
IBM software for driving the machines directly from an IBM mainframe
Etc, Etc.

The whole concept was incredibly advanced, and amazingly wide ranging - one of the fore-runners of a modern FMS

You can read some of the background behind this here:

Molins System 24 Machining Centre - Object Wiki

It would be very interesting to hear from anyone who worked on this system, but my particular interest is a film that was made at the time and that I saw, probably in the late 1970s. This covered most of the thinking behind this system and left me very impressed. I hoped to find a copy of this film on Youtube or somewhere similar but have failed. Can anyone help with this?

Click to expand...

I worked in the Molins R & D section in 1964/65 on some aspects of System 24 - the high speed spindle was driven by a hydraulic fluid jet driving a pelton wheel approx. 2" diameter. The hydrostatic bearings had multi orifice restrictors fitted inside a .22 cartridge case. It was described in an article in the IMech E members magazine. Yes - a very advanced concept!

I believe I still have a System 24 ashtray tucked away somewhere. I believe my father had 2, a round one and a triangular one but I only have one of them.

Peter S said:

I am pretty sure the Science Museum has a Molins System 24 because they feature it in their excellent book Making of the Modern World.

Quote: This book presents the development of science and technology through one hundred key inventions selected from the Science Museum...

Here are some rather poor photos from the book, hopefully readable? After clicking on thumbnail, there should be an icon to further enlarge the image...

Click to expand...

The photos from this post have vanished, so here they are again. Click on the thumbnail, then click again on the image to enlarge.



This reference is also mentioned in the book:

Just came across this thread when researching DTN Williamson. His entry is so ridiculously lacking. He was an engineer in the ilk of Edison…Dyson… Those engineers who were ahead of their times, inspirational and had to battle with the bean-counters. System24 was totally his baby, I have no idea how he got Desmond Molins to fund the development of this futuristic concept. The association with design of very high speed cigarette makers didn’t seem too clear to me. The ‘24’ was to indicate machines that, unlike a human operated miller, could be working 24 hrs a day. (Modern 24/7.)
I worked on R&D of the tobacco machinery and the good Chief engineers of our machines were driven/inspired by this man.
The last big job I know of for S24 was the the manufacture of the windows on Concorde, milled out of solid in order to prevent source of fatigue failure seen on the DH Comet.
It grieves me that the age of the solitary driven and driving engineer has virtually disappeared. Maybe Adrien Newey (Red Bull) or Musk will be remembered the same way?

YUP ^^^
I have not seen anyone in management (engineering or otherwise) in the last 20 years that has a sign on their desk "The buck stops here".
Real sign or otherwise attributed to them for their drive & determination.

There is a book 'Advances in Machine Tool Design and Research, proceedings of the 8th international MTDR conference, University of Manchester. September 1967. Pergamon Press. This compilation of papers has in Part 1 a fifty page discussion by D T N Williamson of the System 24. Fascinating stuff, complete with down-to-earth Political Incorrectness of the day. Obviously too much content to expand on here. Heavy use of hydraulics, basically ALL movement, direct drive spindles by 'tiny' Pelton wheel turbines, guessing about 3 inch diameter, giving about 21 h p at 24,000 rpm. A veritable 'typing pool' of girls at the control consoles ..
The cigarette/tobacco connection: I can remember my first boss in materials research telling me, in about 1968, that cigarette manufacturing & packaging machinery was the fastest, precise, automated machinery around at that time. He had just come from British Tobacco with a PHD in Physics/Instrument Engineering. I guess the tobacco people had the money in those days.

Thoughout history mfg tech has been advanced by a mix of major uses, generally of mixed social desireability. Firearms, and also sewing machines. Personal computers, medical diagnostic tech, and hyper accurate guidence for nuclear weapons.