Large machine tools by Noble and Lund

Too big to fit into our sheds and garages, but an interesting catalogue from the 1930s? Oddly, the original pages had rather small images but, scanned at 800 d.p.i., they have blown up pretty well

Noble & Lund Large Machine Tools

Founded in 1886 by Harry Noble and Pearson Lund, Noble & Lund was based in Felling-on-Tyne, Gateshead. Success appear to have been almost immediate with, by 1899, shares being issued and the company going public - though by 1908 it was back in private han

www.lathes.co.uk

when your lathe's headstock has windows and electric lights .. well you know its something special!

Nice! Thanks, Tony.

Here is a pic I snagged a while back, from Doxford. The catalog mentions them as a customer.

Some more from Doxford:

The first appears to be the type machine on page 6 of the catalog



The second (center foreground) is not quite like any in the catalog, although similar to some, but the window setup appears to ID it as an N & L.

JST said:

Some more from Doxford:

The first appears to be the type machine on page 6 of the catalog

The second (center foreground) is not quite like any in the catalog, although similar to some, but the window setup appears to ID it as an N & L.

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Looking at the logo on the headstock as best as I can, it could be a “ Craven “.
The last big installation I did was of a “ Noble & Lund “ Plano-mill. It had been reconditioned by them. Obviously it was more modern than the ones in the article.I had to go up to the factory in Felling to check it out. Very nice machines. Built to last a man’s life time.

Regards Tyrone.

Might be, but various details on it match the catalog pretty well. Top drive, windows, the dial next to the faceplate, tailstock wheels, carriage slide arrangement, headstock wheels and control plate near the meter dial, etc.

I'd not expect an exact match to the catalog, because the machines were made for the customer, and whatever they wanted different from the 'basic" machine. For instance, the catalog unit is a dual carriage, with them bypassing the tailstock. The picture is a single carriage, shorter bed, and would not need to bypass, so the bed has no front extension, and the tailstock moving mechanism can be in front.

At least one other picture I have is almost certainly a Craven, and there are Niles, Herbert, and others in the pictures as well.

JST said:

Might be, but various details on it match the catalog pretty well. Top drive, windows, the dial next to the faceplate, tailstock wheels, carriage slide arrangement, headstock wheels and control plate near the meter dial, etc.

I'd not expect an exact match to the catalog, because the machines were made for the customer, and whatever they wanted different from the 'basic" machine. For instance, the catalog unit is a dual carriage, with them bypassing the tailstock. The picture is a single carriage, shorter bed, and would not need to bypass, so the bed has no front extension, and the tailstock moving mechanism can be in front.

At least one other picture I have is almost certainly a Craven, and there are Niles, Herbert, and others in the pictures as well.

Click to expand...

Hi JST, in the world of large lathe headstock design those details weren’t exclusive to “ N & L “. Several makers lathes looked very similar for obvious reasons.

What made me think it was a “ Craven “ lathe was the shape of the logo. Short and starting small at both ends but bigger in the middle. A sort of cut off diamond shape. If you have a photo of a “ Craven “ machine have a look at the logo, you’ll see what I mean.
” N&L “ invariably used a written “ Noble & Lund “ as their logo, they didn’t shorten it in any way.

Having worked on their machinery it’s a real shame that they are no longer in business. The same goes for “ Craven “ in Reddish not far from where I live.

Regards Tyrone.

Ja, I know there are similar features. But what I pointed out can be found in the catalog in the same places and of the same form. Still possible either way, as it may be that other suppliers sold to both companies.

Not all the machines show logos in the pics. Removed, painted over, whatever. The big planer has the most typical N&L Logo, just as you say.

I could find no logo at all when I expanded the pic, which I have in higher res. Where to look?

Are you two talking about the same lathe?

First photo: First two lathes: Noble & Lund; 3rd don't know; 4th Swift, probably; 5th no idea.

Second photo: could well be a Craven.

Second photo - the T- bed lathe in the foreground. In the photo looking directly above the hand wheel there appears to a red painted diamond. Just below the left hand window.

Regards Tyrone.

Asquith said:

Are you two talking about the same lathe? No, I don't think so

First photo: First two lathes: Noble & Lund; 3rd Noble & Lund, 4th Swift, 5th no idea.

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What an impressive manufacturing scene in that first photo. Big lathes, all busy.

Here is an enlargement of the 3rd, 4th and 5th lathes. The 5th name is on the tailstock, but unclear (below):



Here is another lathe at William Doxford's with windows in the headstock and wheels for gear changing: MDF Deutschland Dortmund:



I wonder if the same lathe ended up in Ireland...(found on lathes.co.uk Deutschland Dortmund page):



There were also a couple of Niles shown working on crankshafts. Strangely enough, one of them is doing the same job as the N&L lathe on page 16 of the catalogue (below):

Peter,

Thanks - I tried hard to find higher resolution versions of those photos, but failed.

I'm going to suggest Thomas Shanks & Co for the lathe behind the Swift.

Strangely enough, the last Shanks-branded lathes were made by Craven Brothers after Shanks folded in 1928.

Cool. Good to have someone who knows the machines comment.

The first one was the only one I felt really looked right, the second seems similar, but the others I didn't even look at closely, and had no opinion about.

That short one in the other pic was a questionable ID to begin with.

Regardless, definitely an interesting place, with big lathes, big planers, big slotters, etc, all busy. You have to go to other places in the world to see that now.

Those lathes will be all over the Third World now. “ Doxfords “ closed down a while ago.

I had dealings with a large “ Kearns-Richards “ Hor bore that the “ MDF “ lathe company had bought. They were looking for a borer to machine those large headstock castings.
The Germans rarely bought British machine tools but “ MDF “ had some sort of tie-up with “ Staveley Industries “ at the time, I think they were the agents for their lathes in the UK. So they insisted that “ MDF “ bought a “ Kearns-Richards “ machine. “ K-R “ was also a “ Staveley “ company.

The Germans would have preferred a “ Scharmann “ no doubt.
They weren’t happy with the machine. It was a big planer type Hor bore were the column travelled in and out on hydrostatic ways. In fact all the ways were hydrostatic. They had long standing alignment issues with the bed of the travelling column. Basically it was too flimsy for the job they said. The Germans insisted that “ K-R “ either “ sort it out or take it out “. After all sorts of on-site modifications, re-inforcments etc the machine was taken out of the “ MDF “ factory and shipped back to the UK at great cost.
It was only after this that the Germans “ discovered “ an underground stream running under the factory that actually passed right under where the column end of the borer had been sited !
When it was back in the UK I went and had a look at it with a customer and my conclusion also was - the column ways were too flimsy. Why this was I don’t know, “ Richards “ had been making similar machines previously with no issues at all.

Regards Tyrone.

The pics seem to all be from the 1960s, based on a lorry seen in one of them. I understand the place closed up in the 1980s, after being punted around through different owners.

Tyrone,

When I started at AEI Trafford Park in 1968/9, there was a very big modern Kearns-Richards HBM taking up space. I think it was an early NC machine. It stood idle for much of the time, but I don’t know what the problems were. Curtis Sparkes wrote at length about the problems at the top of Kearns, followed by the difficulties arising from the merger with Richards, culminating in the disastrous takeover by Staveley Industries.

Back to Noble & Lund. The last N&L machine I saw in harness was a big plano-miller at the Siemens works (née C. A. Parsons) in Newcastle, about 8 years ago, doing turbine work.

There was an unusual Noble & Lund machine at the CEGB Central Workshops at Hams Hall. It was an odd combination of a big lathe combined with a horizontal borer. It was designed for various machining operations on turbine rotors undergoing refurbishment. The rotors would be up to about 13 ft diameter.

Asquith said:

Peter,

Thanks - I tried hard to find higher resolution versions of those photos, but failed.

Click to expand...

Asquith,

I bought a DVD of Doxford photos some years ago so I have the high res. photos. However, I think I have seen them elsewhere on the internet, perhaps on ShipsNostalgia.com.


This scan comes from the Wonders of World Engineering, published in the late 1930's.



From the same book, a Craven Bros. lathe built about 1935 (below):




The text adds that in 1937 Craven Brothers were building three lathes, each to swing workpieces of 188 inches and 33ft long.

In 1936, a tube boring machine was built with 51 inch centre height, 260 ft overall length, capable of boring tubes 100 ft long, weighing 100 tons.

Peter,

Thanks. Do you have a high res version of the photo showing the T-bed lathe, suspected to be a Craven?

Regarding the 110" swing Noble & Lund lathe in your photo, I suspect that's the one that KiwIPete's dad used to operate at English Steel Corp, Sheffield.

From The Engineer, 19 March 1926. Described as a large plate ripping machine made by Noble & Lund for Dorman, Long & Co, for ‘ripping up’ steel plates up to 5 ft wide and 67 ft long for the construction of Sydney Harbour Bridge.

It seems to be nothing more than a travelling head planer. Automatic downward feed, manual transverse positioning, so presumably it was just used for planing the edges of the plates.

100 tons, 80 ft long, 40 HP motor.