source for cannode blue and yellow (or red)

marka12161 · Sep 19, 2022

I tried digging through the archives to find a current source for cannode. Unless I missed it, I didn't see anything current. Where are you guys getting cannode these days?

lucky7 · Sep 19, 2022

Also interested…

Bakafish · Sep 19, 2022

I got mine from http://www.artcotools.com/ a few months ago. But they were having trouble contacting their supplier and I ended up buying the larger size bottles as the smaller ones were backordered indefinitely.

Luke Rickert · Sep 20, 2022

I have done plenty of scraping and never used the cannode I had on the shelf, it just doesn't work as well as the real thing. My understanding is that it is used in courses as it is somewhat easier to clean-up but in practice you will not find a professional using it. Just get proper Prussian blue and some good hand cleaner. In my experience Cannode is just overpriced junk, they ship it in defective bottles where the tops clog and pop off randomly, there are often solids that are not suspended and it just doesn't print as nicely as oil based products. I like Diamant's blue, the more common in the US Permatex is a bit harder to deal with but definently works. https://hoffmanngroupusa.com/diamant-engineers-blue-80-ml-tube/

Paolo_MD · Sep 20, 2022

My understanding is that Canode inks are discontinued.
I am getting good results using Charbonnel Aqua Wash etching inks (available from many suppliers, I have take one randomly for the link).
They are a little thick and need to be diluted with a couple of drops of water/Windex, but the Prussian blue is nicely intense.
I found that the best way to spread on a plate is to use first a piece of Shammy cloth, then a roller.

Paolo

Screwmachine · Sep 20, 2022

Is Dapra ink the same as Canode or is it their own stuff? I agree that the real stuff works better, but it sure is nice to use the Dapra (Canode?) to get close.

Luke Rickert · Sep 20, 2022

Screwmachine said:
Is Dapra ink the same as Canode or is it their own stuff? I agree that the real stuff works better, but it sure is nice to use the Dapra (Canode?) to get close.

yes it is the same. I have used a few different batches of it and the "large" pieces of pigment just were not expectable, even for rough scraping. Could be some luck of the draw. I also have no interest in using corrosive cleaning products (glass cleaner) on my machines so the "ease" of cleaning isn't a big motivator for me.

Richard King · Sep 20, 2022

Dapra bought Canode and put their label on it. So did I and other retailers. The Canode ink was made by a small company called Ink Specialties. Run by one man and his daughter. He retired and moved to Florida and his daughter stayed in Michigan making the ink thru another ink maker. The owner passed away and his daughter decided to stop making it. I talked to her as I have known her for years. She said it wasn't a big money maker and she was only involved because she loved her dad and now that he is gone she can't afford to make it anymore. I use Charbonnel Red now instead of the yellow. I have tested the Yellow, by my aging eyes prefer the red. Tom Lipton introduced it to me and I introduced it to this forum a few years ago. I use the Prussian blue too. You need to dab it on your plate with small dots and then use a soft roller to spread it, then a hard roller to make it thin. I dilute the red with Windex or a glass cleaner the same as I did with Canode. I would not use straight water as it could rust the part if you forgot to wipe it off. I also introduced Canode to the forum 40 years ago when I first saw it at GM in Detroit where it was first used.

marka12161 · Sep 20, 2022

Thanks all for your replies. This has been a much discussed topic but like I said, current sources were difficult to find. I think I'm going to get both Charbonnel (red and blue as Richard recommends) as well as the old standby prussian blue and experiment for myself. Seems like lots of room here for personal preference.

I've finally got the honey-do list to a manageable length so i may actually get some time over the fall and winter to do a bit of scraping. I'm very much looking forward to it.
Mark

Richard King · Sep 20, 2022

I tried to download a photo of a plate with the Charbonnel red highlighter and Prussian bluing, but It won't work with the new PM system. For me anyway. Email and I'll send you a copy. [email protected]

Mud · Sep 20, 2022

Is it possible to homebrew the Canode inks?

Homebrewblob · Sep 20, 2022

Mud said:
Is it possible to homebrew the Canode inks?

You rang?..

Richard King · Sep 20, 2022

Scott Muller a member here and and a student told me about this product. It looks like Canode. I called them and here is what they said. They own PMR and Berkshire: I don't need any. Will someone buy a bottle and test it for us?

Berkshire e-Supply | Hand Tools > Marking Tools - Chisels/Punches/Stamps & Fluids > Layout Fluids | 8 Oz Spotting Blue H20 Die Spotting Fluid-Water Soluble Non-Drying | PR0310010

8 Oz Spotting Blue H20 Die Spotting Fluid-Water Soluble Non-Drying|PRM Pro|•Perfect for die spotting and layout applications&Newline;•Water soluble non-drying •Washes off for... No Mess! •Can be applied with ease using brush, rollers, sprayers, etc. •Safe, non-marring and will not deface metal...

www.berkshireesupply.com

Chuck Sees <[email protected]>

To:

Richard King

Tue 9/20/2022 3:35 PM

8oz. spotting blue h20 die. $15.79 1-2 weeks for delivery.
16oz. spotting blue h20 die. $30.23 stocked at our location in Elyria.

We have a little wait for the 8oz bottle but have the larger container stocked here.

Chuck Sees
Inside Sales

SHOP CURRENT SPECIALS
Open M-F 7:30a-4:30p & S 8a-12p
160 Reaser Ct., Elyria, OH 44035
440.365.8040 * 440.365.8044 fax * 800.726.8041

triumph406 · Sep 20, 2022

Mud said:
Is it possible to homebrew the Canode inks?

There's some threads floating around were there was some alchemy going on with making your own marking ink.

Richard King · Sep 21, 2022

Here's an old tread on this.

Testing Spotting Inks and Ink Rollers for Scraping

Charles asked me to write about "tests" I did over in Austria back in October 2019 on Brayers / Ink Rollers. We also tested spotting inks. I will write this in sections as I'm a bit under the weather. Some of you know I came up with 5 RULES of Scraping. # 5 in "Cleaning with your hand to...

www.practicalmachinist.com

JST · Sep 22, 2022

Mud said:
Is it possible to homebrew the Canode inks?

Don't know about homebrewing, but I tried modifying them.

I don't like how they dry out so fast, becoming a "sludge", nor do I like how they remain much thicker as a coating than HiSpot blue. So I tried several things for diluting them somewhat. So far, nothing good.

The best was proplylene glycol, which does not evaporate fast, and is relatively non-toxic (unlike ethylene glycol). But while it did not dry out as much, it stayed too liquid, and tended to smear more than the standard stuff. Maybe I did not have the exact right amount, don't know.

The Windex trick works OK. The problem is that there is about a 20 second time period where the Canode is neither stiff and sludgy, nor too liquid and smeary. You have to hit that magic time to get the best print.

I give anyone good luck trying to get something that works as well as HiSpot blue, without the mess. Or even as well as the original Canode, which is likely pretty decent for it's original purpose. It was not originally made for machine scraping, but apparently for some similar task in either printing or mold-making, not sure which.

Richard King · Sep 22, 2022

The original Canode was developed at General Motors after they banded Dykem High spot bluing from inside their Michigan plants. I know the story as I used to use Dykem in my classes and when I started to teach there I had to use the Canode. I hated it! I had to learn to use it. It does dry out fast, but you have to clean it off and reapply it. This is good though, even if your using Dykem as just the dirt flying in the air pollutes all inks. That's why I insist all students wipe the part and surface plate with their bare hand before bluing to feel the dirt with their bare fingers.. The GM employees played games with the Dykem on fellow employees. People would put it inside shoes, on machine handles and when someone pot it on car door handles and people would get it inside their personal cars it started fist fights and lawsuits. I believe I have used or blued up more parts and scraped it more then any other PM member. One has to learn to adapt using inks. I think Dyken is the best, but I don't like staining my fingers, clothes, surface plates, ear, nose, etc. I was talking to someone a few days ago, who said he has used the concrete tint powder and it has small particles in it and if you don't wipe it clean with your hand it will scratch the surfaces.

TGTool · Sep 22, 2022

I thought I learned this from Rich, but maybe I'm imagining that. To counter the drying with Canode, I spritz the plate with just a couple drops of Windex, then use the brayer to go over the whole ink area again just like spreading the first time, only this is just spreading out the Windex and mixing it with what's on the plate. It's got to be just a tiny bit or it gets smeary like Jerry mentions. Even with a tiny bit more moisture, swiping with the palm to check for grit doesn't seems to pull much up or smear it before marking the part. If you get too much, there's no help for it but to clean everything off and start again.

Yan Wo · Sep 22, 2022

I have WAY too much Canode 2243 blue and yellow (from Artco). I you want some, PM me.

Richard King · Sep 22, 2022

I called Artco in The Bay area a couple of months ago and they were out of stock and said they weren't getting anymore. ??

source for cannode blue and yellow (or red)

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