Anxious for help identifying SB Lathe

williethehog · Dec 20, 2022

Greetings from Baltimore, first post from an old guy trying to become a hobby machinist. I'm on the verge of purchasing an older South Bend Model CL199A, serial number 10127 RKR followed by something that looks like an old school capital I followed by possibly a 4. Pics attached. Thanks to this great resourse, I have most of it decoded but am stuck on the actual production year and that odd two character suffix. Any help would be appreciated. And definitly ALL opinions welcomed.
Bill form Baltimore...aka williethehog

johnoder · Dec 20, 2022

williethehog said:
Greetings from Baltimore, first post from an old guy trying to become a hobby machinist. I'm on the verge of purchasing an older South Bend Model CL199A, serial number 10127 RKR followed by something that looks like an old school capital I followed by possibly a 4. Pics attached. Thanks to this great resourse, I have most of it decoded but am stuck on the actual production year and that odd two character suffix. Any help would be appreciated. And definitly ALL opinions welcomed.
Bill form Baltimore...aka williethehog

Appears to be from 1957

Shipp · Dec 20, 2022

Grizzly bough south bend, they will sell you the original information for $25:

SBLSerialCard

Grizzly Industrial, Inc. is a national retail and internet company providing a wide variety of high-quality woodworking and metalworking machinery, power tools, hand tools and accessories. By selling directly to end users we provide the best quality products at the best price to professionals...

www.grizzly.com

They also sell parts

SLK001 · Dec 20, 2022

Your lathe is a 10R. It has the smaller spindle bore than a 10L. The "14" after the letters in the serial number was added by an end user somewhere. Maybe in a school setting, someone marked this lathe as #14.

The only difference between a 10R and a 10L is the spindle bore.

The date is in the 1957-58 time frame, as John has stated.

The serial number card is just a waste of money. And Grizzly would sell parts if they had them, but for most models, they do not.

williethehog · Dec 20, 2022

Thanks for the great input guys, very much appreciated. I'm going to make an offer for the lathe, the deal will include numerous tools and accessories. some may actually be functional. Good call from SLK001, the lathe was originally purchased by the Baltimore County school system and was in use in a high school metal shop. It was purchased many years ago by the current owner and was gifted to his dad, a retired professor and accomplished machinest. Dad passed and the son needs it gone. I'll stay in touch with this forum and thread in case I can be of any help to anyone in a similar situation with a similar lathe.
I'll have to break it down to move it out of a basement. Prior to re-assembly, it will receive a thorough cleaning and if I really get ambitious, some period correct paint. To that end, maybe a couple more questions: 1) An immediate upgrade will be a qctp, any recommendations? 2)Some where along the way, the original motor was replaced with a capacitor start 120vac reversible motor. My plan si to install a 3 phase 208/220 vac motor, VFD and speed control reostat. Thoughts...suggestions?

markz528 · Dec 21, 2022

williethehog said:
Thanks for the great input guys, very much appreciated. I'm going to make an offer for the lathe, the deal will include numerous tools and accessories. some may actually be functional. Good call from SLK001, the lathe was originally purchased by the Baltimore County school system and was in use in a high school metal shop. It was purchased many years ago by the current owner and was gifted to his dad, a retired professor and accomplished machinest. Dad passed and the son needs it gone. I'll stay in touch with this forum and thread in case I can be of any help to anyone in a similar situation with a similar lathe.
I'll have to break it down to move it out of a basement. Prior to re-assembly, it will receive a thorough cleaning and if I really get ambitious, some period correct paint. To that end, maybe a couple more questions: 1) An immediate upgrade will be a qctp, any recommendations? 2)Some where along the way, the original motor was replaced with a capacitor start 120vac reversible motor. My plan si to install a 3 phase 208/220 vac motor, VFD and speed control reostat. Thoughts...suggestions?

I think it would be a great lathe if its not wore out.

As far as a motor and VFD, absolutely! But you do want to have dynamic braking. We can easily help you figure out a good motor/drive combo once we know the existing motor speed, hp and frame size. I'm partial to WEG stuff, but there is a bunch of decent stuff pout there that would work.

williethehog · Dec 21, 2022

Thanks Mark. I still don't own the lathe but I'm close. As a semi-retired electrical contractor, I have good access and pricing for motors and controllers and WEG equipment is certainly nothing anybody has to appoligize for. I didn't consider the dynamic braking component but will definitly employ it. My back-up plan is a 9A undercarriage drive or a heavy 10, both in much better apparent shape but a couple of hours away and much less tooling included.
Best regards...Bill

animal12 · Dec 22, 2022

Has it been sitting a long time ? If so You may want to consider a felt kit . Same goes for plan B & C
animal

williethehog · Dec 23, 2022

Thanks Mr. Animal12.
The machine has definitly been sitting out of use for an extended period of time. After I disassemble it, a felt kit and renewal of the wicks will be included during the re-assembly. I'm sure I'll be reaching out for info and advise on bearing tollerances and how to recognize wear points, especially in the headstock and on the spindle.
If I'm out of line mentioning numbers on this forum, please let me know. My offer of $1,000 was countered with $1,250. I passed for now but am in discussion with the owner for any "value added" items he could include with the purchase. Thoughts??? Being out of my depth, I'm concerned about the rabbit hole I may fall into.

SLK001 · Dec 23, 2022

williethehog said:
My offer of $1,000 was countered with $1,250. I passed for now but am in discussion with the owner for any "value added" items he could include with the purchase.

You passed?????

williethehog said:
Thoughts???

You'd better accept that last offer before someone ELSE snaps it up.

williethehog · Dec 23, 2022

I'm sure you're right. Going to reach out now.
Best regards
Bill

williethehog · Dec 23, 2022

SLK001 said:
You passed?????

You'd better accept that last offer before someone ELSE snaps it up.

Done...handshake over the phone, pick it up Tuesday. Very exciting, thanks again for the encouragement.
btw: the winter home is The Villages, Fl. I noticed you're from Coral Springs...small world.

morsetaper2 · Dec 23, 2022

williethehog said:
Thanks Mr. Animal12.
The machine has definitly been sitting out of use for an extended period of time. After I disassemble it, a felt kit and renewal of the wicks will be included during the re-assembly. I'm sure I'll be reaching out for info and advise on bearing tollerances and how to recognize wear points, especially in the headstock and on the spindle.
If I'm out of line mentioning numbers on this forum, please let me know. My offer of $1,000 was countered with $1,250. I passed for now but am in discussion with the owner for any "value added" items he could include with the purchase. Thoughts??? Being out of my depth, I'm concerned about the rabbit hole I may fall into.

$1250 is a good price even though not much tooling appears to come w/ the lathe. Lathe looks dirty, but in decent shape. Shouldn't take too much to get it working.Often times to really get productive you'll spend as much $$ on tooling as the lathe. At least what's shown includes enough to get started turning... chuck, thread dial, basic primitive toolpost. Looks like there is a threading stop sitting in the chip tray. You can swap out the current 1-7/8 spindle for a donor 2-1/4 spindle that will take 5C collets. You'd need all the parts for the 5C closer of course.

Get the lathe home and start to work on it. There are a couple upcoming events that will provide you an opportunity to pickup parts, tooling, and more:

Cabin Fever Expo in Lebanon, PA Jan 13-14. Auction, flea market, model engine show
https://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/

PATINA Auction & Tailgate Sale, March 11, 2023, Damascus MD

Potomac Antique Tools and Industries Association, Inc. (PATINA)

CAMS Yardsale Lorton, VA (dates TBD)

CAMS

williethehog · Dec 24, 2022

Thanks Mark
Turns out(no pun intended), that the owner/seller was able to stop by our company Christmas party yesterday. We had a great conversation, he is sure there is a lot more tooling and accessories that we'll find once we start the process of disassembling it to move it out of the basement. Good info about the upcoming events. That's a scene I'm not at all used to. Can I ask for a motor recommendation? I'm anxious to swap the single phase, reversible motor for 3 phase 208/220 and control it with a VFD. Regarding the spindle upgrade to accommodate 5C collets...maybe in the near future. Gotta get comfortable running it first. Trying not to go head first down the rabbit hole.

SLK001 · Dec 24, 2022

williethehog said:
...Trying not to go head first down the rabbit hole.

If this is the case, then stick with the current motor. You say that it is a 110V motor, but it just might be a dual voltage motor, so you might be able to rewire it to 220V. As you learn, there is really no reason to use a 3-phase with a VFD. Just use what you have until you need to change (if ever).

williethehog · Dec 24, 2022

Sound advise, thanks

morsetaper2 · Dec 25, 2022

williethehog said:
...Can I ask for a motor recommendation? I'm anxious to swap the single phase, reversible motor for 3 phase 208/220 and control it with a VFD...

Any motor that fits and goes round should do. Standard motor for 10L was 3/4 HP, a 1 HP was optional. Motor HP doesn't matter if the belt slips. Which leather belts are prone to do. Get yourself over to Baltimore Belting and get a rubber belt like THIS. I fooled around w/ serpentine conversions and in a year or two the glued joints would fail. In 2022, 10 years later, that belt still works like new, and has remained impervious to oil. I have been unable to make it slip during use, still to this day.

My lathe runs on 220 single phase, One of these days I'll install a 3 phase w/ VFD.

williethehog · Dec 25, 2022

Thanks Mark, I read the posts and will attempt to head in that direction. I'm downtown nearly every day. I'll be removing the leather belt from the lathe on Tuesday to facilitate disassembly. It's coming apar(the belt)t anyway so seems to make sense. Provided they are open next week I'll stop in on Wednesday.
3/4 hp to 1 hp makes sense. Not sure of the time frame, sometimes I stumble on them in my line of work. VFD is in hand. Best regards...Bill

rdenney · Dec 25, 2022

My 14-1/2” SB has a (vintage-definition true) 2-HP single-phase motor, wired for 120, with specified current draw that should upset the 20-amp breaker on startup but doesn’t. I’ll rewire it for 240 when I run a new circuit for it, but until then it works fine. With four speeds plus back gears I haven’t felt the need for a VFD. Moving the belt to change speeds takes five seconds.

You’ll have many other things that need checking and maintenance before looking for a motor alternative.

Rick “whose 1945 lathe was originally equipped with a 560-V, 25-Hz 3-phase motor to the Sparrows Point Bethlehem steel plant” Denney

johnoder · Dec 25, 2022

rdenney said:
Sparrows Point Bethlehem steel plant

Unrelated to thread but Sparrows Point Bethlehem steel plant is where the P&W 12" slotter came from

Anxious for help identifying SB Lathe

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