Headstock flush with kerosene-sight glass removal

Reeltor · Dec 20, 2009

I have drained the headstock oil from my CW and found some areas that are holding oil.
In the downloaded manual I see where it is recommended to change the oil once per year and flush with kerosene. Wont there be kerosene left in the areas that are now holding oil? I'm thinking I should leave well enough alone and just put in fresh oil.
The lower sight glass on the headstock appears to be stained or covered up.

In this thread, it discusses removing the sight glass.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...es-153131.html?t=153131&highlight=sight+glass

Can someone describe or post a photo of the sight glass assembly? I assumed that the three screws held the bezel, and the bezel the held the glass in-place with a cork seal. After reading several of the threads and looking at removal tools that were made; I have my doubts.
Any help and comments are appreciated.

Mike

beckley23 · Dec 20, 2009

There is the bezel, lens, cork gasket, fill level disc with 2 holes, and another cork gasket. Remove the 3 screws and dislodge the bezel and work it out. You will probably tear up the first cork gasket and you'll have to pick out the level disc and in the process destroy the 2nd cork gasket. The gaskets, IIRC are available from Monarch, or it you're like me, you'll make new ones from gasket material. I have found that Simichrome polish is real good at cleaning the lens and the level disc. I use a very thin coating od Loctite Gasket Eliminator 515 on both sides of the gasket material and reassmble. I say very thin coating, you don't want too much squeezing out, in fact I geneally try to get the Loctite just on the OD's of the gaskets. Seems to do a pretty good job, I don't have any leaks on the SE 60. Make sure you coat the screws with Loctite or RTV.
Kerosene flush, and get as much kerosene out as possible by soaking up what doesn't drain wth paper towels, etc.
Harry

rke[pler · Dec 20, 2009

Here's a cross section:

From left to right there's the sight glass, cork gasket, sight plate, cork gasket.

I usually get them loose by lightly levering after putting a close fitting drill shank into one of the screw holes. if it didn't come loose I used 2 with a crescent wrench on both to break the seal and loosen it up.

Reeltor · Dec 20, 2009

Great info

Harry and rke[pler thanks for the information,
The drawing is great. I think the sight glass was replaced with a piece of Plexiglas. I'll try to get it out tomorrow.

Mike

NJ_Toolnut · Dec 20, 2009

Useful Info +1, Thanks!

Reeltor, Harry and rke[pler,

Reeltor, thanks for asking about sight glass assembly and Harry and rke[pler, thanks for your extremely responsive posts.

This post will be very useful to me since I need to repair all three of the sight glasses on my CY. On my Monarch, the sight glass intended to demonstrate spindle bearing oiling is practically opaque from crud on the inside of the lens and is leaking, while the other sight glass in the headstock, intended to show the oil level, has been replaced with a stainless disk with a small brass petcock threaded into it. I guess the idea was if the petcock is opened and oil runs out then the level is OK. The sight glass on my apron is also leaking.

The wealth of information in this section of the forum and the in-depth knowledge and generosity of those who post in response to questions continue to amaze me. The availability of the information here was decisive when I was pondering what lathe to purchase.

Thanks again!

Stan

rke[pler · Dec 20, 2009

NJ_Toolnut said:
On my Monarch, the sight glass intended to demonstrate spindle bearing oiling is practically opaque from crud on the inside of the lens...

Harry said that he polished his clean, I used a product called "Oil Eater" that does a more than fair job eating oxidized oil. One caveat, though - it has to be somewhat warm to work. At the temperatures typical in a shop right now (in the northern hemisphere, anyway) it doesn't do a lot more than to get things wet. At room temperature it cleans an opaque sight glass in a few seconds of soaking.

Reeltor · Dec 20, 2009

Cw sight glass fill photos

NJ_Toolnut said:
Reeltor, Harry and rke[pler,

Reeltor, thanks for asking about sight glass assembly and Harry and rke[pler, thanks for your extremely responsive posts.

The wealth of information in this section of the forum and the in-depth knowledge and generosity of those who post in response to questions continue to amaze me. The availability of the information here was decisive when I was pondering what lathe to purchase.

Thanks again!

Stan

NJ ToolNut

All the thanks goes to knowledgeable posters like Harry and rke[pler who share their wealth of information.
Stan, if it wasn't for this forum and posters like Harry and rke[pler I would have ended up with a Harbor Freight or similar unit for more than twice what I have in the CW

Here are the photos of what I found when the sight glass was removed.

On my CW the oil level is marked on the bezel, the "glass" is a thin piece of plastic. I can't imagine that it is original.

Reverse side of bezel, two cork gaskets sat in the recess of the bezel then the sight glass on top.

Headstock gasket (glued in) will require some picking and scraping to clean the cork off the face. Screws were removed, then inserted a punch partway into one of the screw-holes and taped with a plastic hammer. Bezel moved easily, then used dental picks to work the bezel out of the recess.

NJ_Toolnut · Dec 20, 2009

CW Sight Glass

rke[pler,

I know what you mean about shop temperatures. I've been burning a lot of wood, and also plowed/shoveled 8" of snow today here in NW NJ.

You mentioned "Oil Eater." Is this the stuff?

http://www.oileater.com/Industrial.html

Reeltor,

Thanks for posting the excellent pictures and describing the removal process you used.

I believe my two remaining sight glasses are both glass. They don't feel like plastic.

I believe your sight glass was jury rigged at some point in the past. It seems to me that an original assembly would not have had two cork gaskets on top of each other behind the bezel when one thicker gasket would have been simpler to assemble. Perhaps the extra gasket was needed because the replacement plastic was thinner than the original glass.

How do you intend to scrape/pick out the cork backing in the recess without allowing pieces of cork to find their way into the oil openings at the bottom and back of the hole?

Do you intend to order replacement gaskets from Monarch since you need a new glass anyway, or make your own from cork gasket material? I may measure the thickness of the old gasket, order cork gasket material and make my own.

Harry,

Didn't you also use Locktite Gasket Eliminator 515 to seal the headstock cover on your SE 60? I've had my headstock cover off to inspect, but I quickly replaced it without resealing as I have been waiting to get power to the lathe in order to do a proper kerosene flush (a few minutes at medium speed) before sopping up the residual kerosene and replacing/resealing the cover with sealant.

Stan

Reeltor · Dec 20, 2009

gasket replacement

NJ_Toolnut said:
rke[pler,

I believe your sight glass was jury rigged at some point in the past. It seems to me that an original assembly would not have had two cork gaskets on top of each other behind the bezel when one thicker gasket would have been simpler to assemble. Perhaps the extra gasket was needed because the replacement plastic was thinner than the original glass.

How do you intend to scrape/pick out the cork backing in the recess without allowing pieces of cork to find their way into the oil openings at the bottom and back of the hole?

Do you intend to order replacement gaskets from Monarch since you need a new glass anyway, or make your own from cork gasket material? I may measure the thickness of the old gasket, order cork gasket material and make my own.

Harry,

Didn't you also use Locktite Gasket Eliminator 515 to seal the headstock cover on your SE 60? I've had my headstock cover off to inspect, but I quickly replaced it without resealing as I have been waiting to get power to the lathe in order to do a proper kerosene flush (a few minutes at medium speed) before sopping up the residual kerosene and replacing/resealing the cover with sealant.

Stan

Stan,

I agree the sight glass was jury rigged, the plastic piece is very thin and decidedly not Monarch quality. I have already sent Terrie at Monarch Parts an e-mail asking for pricing and availability of the gaskets and sight glass. The cork gaskets should be an easy local find. At this point I am not sure that I will try to remove the cork that is glued into the lathe. As you pointed out; I am afraid of getting pieces of cork into the plumbing.

Quick question:

Are headstock covers sealed to the headstock? Mine was not, I see no evidence of seepage. At least no leakage until I loosened the cap-screws :rolleyes5:

Mike

beckley23 · Dec 20, 2009

A 1/4" wood chisel comes in handy for removing the gasket material in the castings. Work slowly, and always aim the ejected material towards the outside. Then get in there with Scotchbrite to get the residuals, followed up by Acetone. I generally wet a paper towel with Acetone to do the last operation. Observe the proper safety precautions.

For gasket material, I use a paper type that a bearing house donated many years ago when they eliminated that product line. It is a lot easier to work with than cork, IMO.

Yes, I used the Loctite 515 Gasket Eliminator to seal the headstock cover on the SE 60. In the past, I used Permatex #2 on the CK and CY for the same purpose, but I generally wind up getting that stuff all over my hands, and it's a bear to clean off. I find the Loctite is a lot easier to work with. I also use it when I remount the apron to the carriage, to seal that joint from coolant, in fact I use it wherever I think the coolant can penetate.

In Russ's parts breakdown above, the lens is flush with the outer edge of the bezel/ring, and has a corresponding depression on the inside. I think there is a picture in the "Another New Toy" topic. If not, let me know, I still have an unmounted lens on the "Wreck".
Harry

rke[pler · Dec 20, 2009

NJ_Toolnut said:
rke[pler,

I know what you mean about shop temperatures. I've been burning a lot of wood, and also plowed/shoveled 8" of snow today here in NW NJ.

You mentioned "Oil Eater." Is this the stuff?

http://www.oileater.com/Industrial.html

That's the stuff. Works really well above 72 degF, anywhere below works like sudsy water. It's the enzymes. In summer you can spray it on dried up coolant that laughed at the purple stuff and it sloughs off with the overspray.

dgfoster · Dec 20, 2009

Gaskets--Cork? Try an O-ring

When I removed and replaced the sight glasses on my EE I went to my local (real) hardware store and purchased O-rings to use instead of cork. If you want to be absolutely stock, use cork. If you want a practical solution, consider an O-ring. Easy to install and easy to remove and REUSE the next time.

HTH,
Denis

dgfoster · Dec 20, 2009

Removal Tool

The tool shown in the last post of this thread cited below was easy to make and worked well for me and for another member of this forum who borrowed it. The three pins are inserted into the screw holes of the bezel. A wrench is used on the hex to apply a uniform torque to the bezel and break it free from the accumulated paint and gunk binding it in place. It took only seconds per glass to get them out using this method.

Other methods of prying or picking the firmly-stuck bezel out risk cracking it worst-case or almost certainly scratching the bezel.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...lp-removing-sightglasses-153131.html?t=153131

Denis

dgfoster · Dec 20, 2009

Stuff the hole

To prevent bits of the cork ending up in the headstock etc use a bit of paper towel stuffed in the hole while doing your cleaning out of the cork. Just don't forget to pull it out with a needle nose before replacing the glass.

As you pull it out it will sweep out all those worrisome little bits.

Denis

johnoder · Dec 21, 2009

Are headstock covers sealed to the headstock?

My CW 16 isn't - I just use grease. Seems adequate as far as keeping oil in but I can't remember that last time I ran it over 300 rpm, either.

Those that sail on up to 700 or so regularly probably need a gasket and/or gasket compound.

John Oder

Reeltor · Dec 21, 2009

O-Ring, sight glass material?

dgfoster said:
If you want a practical solution, consider an O-ring. Easy to install and easy to remove and REUSE the next time.

HTH,
Denis

dgfoster said:
The tool shown in the last post of this thread cited below was easy to make and worked well for me and for another member of this forum who borrowed it. The three pins are inserted into the screw holes of the bezel. A wrench is used on the hex to apply a uniform torque to the bezel and break it free from the accumulated paint and gunk binding it in place. It took only seconds per glass to get them out using this method.

Other methods of prying or picking the firmly-stuck bezel out risk cracking it worst-case or almost certainly scratching the bezel.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...lp-removing-sightglasses-153131.html?t=153131

Denis

dgfoster said:
To prevent bits of the cork ending up in the headstock etc use a bit of paper towel stuffed in the hole while doing your cleaning out of the cork. Just don't forget to pull it out with a needle nose before replacing the glass. As you pull it out it will sweep out all those worrisome little bits.

Denis

johnoder said:
My CW 16 isn't - I just use grease. Seems adequate as far as keeping oil in but I can't remember that last time I ran it over 300 rpm, either.

Those that sail on up to 700 or so regularly probably need a gasket and/or gasket compound.

John Oder

Dennis thanks for the ideas. I like the idea of using an O-ring instead of a gasket. Would a Nitrile O-ring have enough oil resistance to use instead of paper or cork gasket material?

I can see where the tool that Dennis made would be needed to get everything apart if any type of gasket sealer was used sometime in the past. (I was lucky)

I though about stuffing a piece of sponge into the hole to keep bits of cork from falling back into the headstock. Does anyone know if using a shop vac to suck up the bits, while picking away at the cork can cause any damage to oil pumps or metering devices?

John, thanks for the info on sealing the cover. I'll try grease first and see how it goes.

Is original sight glass material just window glass? It didn't occur to me that window glass would stand up well to the vibrations etc.
BTW Grainger now stocks DTE Heavy Medium

johnoder · Dec 21, 2009

Is original sight glass material just window glass?

Lexan (polycarbonate) available at such as Home Depot in the window glass section is working well as sight glasses in my Ohio shaper, was easy to get and easy to work with.

John Oder

PaulM · Dec 21, 2009

I reused the cork gaskets on mine - I did use a removable gasket sealer on them. Seems to work well so far.

Sight glasses and sight plate cleaned up just fine with krud kutter in my case.

As noted stuff a paper towel or something in the hole. With any conventional vacuum you should not have any issue sucking up bits. The only oil pump in an EE is in the apron and I assume you would pull the pan there.

Headstock cover (my experience is with a modular). There is no need to put any sealant on the cast metal cover. Under the cast metal cover there is a plastic cover (tapered to the center with a metal filter screen under the fill hole) held in place by 6 or 8 screws . This plate has a cork gasket sealing to the headstock. This has been fine with no sealant and I have run the machine up to 4k for a limited time - no leaks there. I don't know if the same applies to earlier machines.

Paul

Reeltor · Dec 21, 2009

Lexan

johnoder said:
Lexan (polycarbonate) available at such as Home Depot in the window glass section is working well as sight glasses in my Ohio shaper, was easy to get and easy to work with.

John Oder

PaulM said:
I reused the cork gaskets on mine - I did use a removable gasket sealer on them. Seems to work well so far.

Sight glasses and sight plate cleaned up just fine with krud kutter in my case.

As noted stuff a paper towel or something in the hole. With any conventional vacuum you should not have any issue sucking up bits. The only oil pump in an EE is in the apron and I assume you would pull the pan there.

Headstock cover (my experience is with a modular). There is no need to put any sealant on the cast metal cover. Under the cast metal cover there is a plastic cover (tapered to the center with a metal filter screen under the fill hole) held in place by 6 or 8 screws . This plate has a cork gasket sealing to the headstock.

Paul

Just opened an e-mail from Parts at Monarch, current sight glass material is Lexan. I just found that the plastic lens on a small $2 LED flashlight is the exact size needed. No fuss, no muss (and no special trip to HD), thanks John.

Paul on the CW there doesn't seem to be any plastic cover under the cast iron cover. Don't know if it's missing or something added to the modular and later models. I think I will try the plastic lens with nitrile O-rings and a little grease between the headstock and the cover.

Thanks for the input

Mike

Cal Haines · Dec 21, 2009

+1 for the tool with the 3 pins to remove the sight glass.

I replaced the cork gaskets for my round-dial 10EE's sight glassed with a 70 duro BUNA O-ring. Works great, no need for gasket sealer. On a 10EE it's handy to be able to remove the spindle bearing sight glasses as it's the only way to drain the sumps.

I used AS568-116S O-rings, which have a square cross-section for better support against the glass. The -116S is 15/16" OD, 3/32 thick. I had intended to use one on each side of the glass but they are a bit too thick for that, so I used 1/16" cork on the outside. If I was going to do it again I would use -019S rings, (McMaster-Carr #4061T124). They are 1/16" thick, 15/16 OD.

My windows are glass. Some were so dirty you could barely see through them. I used Diamondite Glass Resurfacing Cream to clean them up; works great! You can get it from Caswell Plating: https://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/diamondite/diamondgl2.html

Cal

Headstock flush with kerosene-sight glass removal

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