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10 EE lubricants

AlfaGTA

Diamond
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Location
Benicia California USA
OK, have to assume that this has been covered to death, but for the life of me i can't seem to make the "search" function cough up any relevant information.
So i will apologize in advance...If some member here has a link to the info please post it and i will not clog up this forum with further writing on this subject....

Here is my question:
Looked at the recommended oils used on the EE and in specific oil for the QC gear box and head stock
My machine is a three sight glass "Modular" drive (63') if it matters....

The info i find is that the head stock should have "Vactra Light" oil
The QC gear box should have "Vactra Heavy Med." oil.....

I look at the specs for these oils and they are called out for applications "That do not require high quality wear protection" Not sure this sound like a good choice for applications that include gears.
(QC box, head stock)
Exactly what oils are members here using ...
Already have good stocks of Mobil DTE 25 that i use as a gear lube and hydraulic oil in my Deckels.....As i understand it this is an "AW 46" hydraulic oil formulated with "anti wear"
components. Seems like a good choice for the QC gear box.

Seems that DTE 24 would be fine for the head stock (AW 32)

Trying to keep the number of different lubricants to a minimum...Simpler/less chance of topping up with the wrong oil....

Cheers Ross
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
When I see DTE 24, with the number, I'm thinking DTE hydraulic oil. I'd probably only use hydraulic DTE in Hydraulic systems. Both Hydraulic and circulating oils come from the same mineral oil stock, during their refining processes, so they are relatively close. But I'd personally prefer to use circulating oil in almost all cases, as it should be a touch better at lubricating.

Here's a nice post by Joe Michaels where he prefers the hydraulic DTE's:
DTE Numbered and DTE Named Oils - The differences explained

A funny post from Forrest Addy:
What is the difference between Mobil DTE Light and Mobile DTE 24?

If you ever want to check oils by product or manufacture codes:

http://theoilnet.com/Atlantic-States-Lubricants/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/industrial-19.pdf

Mobil All Industrial Products
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
...
Here's a nice post by Joe Michaels where he prefers the hydraulic DTE's:
DTE Numbered and DTE Named Oils - The differences explained
...
In Joe's post, he relates some of his experience with lubricating machines:
...
Having spent 47 years in the powerplant industry, and working with all sorts of babbitted, bronze, and antifriction bearings, I got a little familiar with lubricating oils. In the hydroelectric plants, we had babbitted bearings on the turbines and generators. 800 tons of rotating mass in each unit, riding on babbitted thrust shoes and babbitted guide bearings. All of this ran in DTE 68 oil. We had Woodward governors using very sensitive hydraulic control valves, and ran DTE 46 in them.
...
He then goes on to say that because DTE 46 or DTE 68 worked for large turbines, it should be fine for machine tools. He doesn't say if those turbines used high-pressure lubrication systems with filters. I would be surprised if they didn't. Needless to say, that's very different service that a 10EE's headstock or gearbox, where there are no lube pumps or filters.

Borrowing from my earlier posts on this subject:
Here's what I recommend:

  • Mobil DTE Light for headstock bearings
  • Mobil DTE Heavy-Medium for headstock center reservoir, quick-change gearbox and backgear
  • Mobil Vactra #2 for apron and tailstock
...
Mobil DTE 24 DOES NOT replace Mobil DTE Light
Mobil DTE 26 DOES NOT replace Mobil DTE Heavy-Medium

The Mobil DTE 20 series (which includes DTE 24 and DTE 26) are "hydraulic oils", designed for very different service than the Mobil DTE Named series (including DTE Light and DTE Heavy-Medium), which are classified as "circulating oils".

Hydraulic oils need to be able to work with high-pressure pumps and exotic alloys used in servo valves, seals, etc. They have additives that are ENGINEERED for that application. In general, hydraulic systems use filters to remove contaminants and hydraulic oils have additives to suspend particles so that the filter can remove them. Their PRIMARY purpose is to operate hydraulic cylinders, etc, not lubricate gears and ball bearings. The BEST additives (including rust and oxidation and anti-foaming additives) for gears and ball bearings may not play nicely the alloys used in high-end hydraulic systems (and we're not talking your garden tractor here).
...

... The Vactra Named Series was discontinued and the DTE Named Series is the recommended replacement.

The DTE 20 series, which includes DTE 24, is formulated as hydraulic oil. The main purpose of hydraulic oil is to move things via hydraulic force, be it the cylinder on a backhoe or an industrial robot. According to the Exxon-Mobil website, the 20 series “…were developed in conjunction with the major builders to meet the stringent requirements of severe hydraulic systems using high pressure, high output pumps as well as handling the critical requirements of other hydraulic system components such as close clearance servo-valves and the high accuracy numerically controlled (NC) machine tools.” The two companies they mention by name are Denison (a Parker Company) and Vickers (an Eaton Company); both market high end hydraulic cylinders, servo valves, etc. These components use special alloys that require protection by special additives in the oil. The NC machine tools they referr to here are probably things like industrial robots, not CNC machining centers.

Hydraulic oil has to operate in very different conditions than gear oil and has special additives to handle the service. For example, a retracting hydraulic cylinder carries minute amounts of contaminants back into the cylinder where it can contaminate the oil; special additives work to neutralize the contamination. Hydraulic systems usually have filters to remove particles from the oil and this typically means that additives are used to suspend the particles until they reach the filter.

Additives aren’t necessarily compatible with one another and may work at cross purposes. For example, the additives in DTE 24 inhibit it's ability to separate from water; DTE Light, on the other hand, has excellent water separation properties.

I’m sure DTE 24 is dandy for what it’s designed to do: operate under pressure and protect internal hydraulic components with exotic metallurgy. It has special anti-wear additives designed to meet those needs.

DTE Light is better at other things: better anti-foaming, much better water separation, better rust and oxidation protection. Foaming can definitely be a problem with a high speed spindle bearing, i.e. 10EE running at 4000 RPM.

For a machine tool spindle with no circulating pump and filter to clean the oil, the last thing you want is oil designed to suspend particles; you want the particles to settle harmlessly to the bottom of the sump. You also want water to separate completely. You don’t want water and debris constantly circulating though precision bearings.
...

Cal
 

daryl bane

Titanium
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
dallas,tx
I will add Vacuoline 1409 as the correct replacement for old formula Vactra #2 with tackifiers, instead of the new type which runs and drips all over.
 

WaltDizzy

Plastic
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
I can't find gallon size containers of Mobil DTE Light. But this site has the best price for 5 gallons I've found, $158 plus shipping. Which is about $30 for me in Madison, WI.

Interestingly, they offer equivalent (in their estimation) circulating oil Phillips 66 R&O 32 for $91.06 for 5 gallons, or Chevron Regal R&O for $121.57 for 5 gallons. The "R&O" stands for "Rust and Oxidation". Presumably preventing those conditions. The site information states these are intended for "mild wear prevention".

I'm not a lubrication specialist and make no claims that these are suitable for a 10EE. Would anyone with such knowledge care to comment?
 

WaltDizzy

Plastic
Joined
Dec 28, 2022
For some reason, it didn't occur to me until yesterday that there must be retail lubricating oil sales in the nearest large town, even though I don't recall ever having seen one. Will be checking local prices tomorrow. I'm thinking I will go with non-Mobil. That's a hefty premium over the competition. I know additives make a difference, but I'm not going to be running the lathe hard.
 

Cal Haines

Diamond
Joined
Sep 19, 2002
Location
Tucson, AZ
The other thing is to check with local machine shops. Find one that buys DTE Light by the barrel and they might be willing to sell you a quart or two.
 








 
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