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Small series 60 thoughts

S5rx7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
I've been on the fence about restoring this 60 series I have. I'm not sure if it's worth my time or not. The machine has a bed repair that concerns me. I have an overview of the unit here.
I've gotten some insight on the monarch social media group. I did contact monarch and got some history on the machine. In 1948 Cleveland Cap screw purchased the mahine. In 1975 Cal products in Warrensville heights, Ohio did a full rebuild on the machine. New plates, screws, apron, crossfeed etc. My hunch is this is when the bed had gotten repaired and also why it needed a rebuild. Why would it ever get an entirely new apron? My hunch is sonthing big and heavy fell on it ot something heavy came out of the machine. Screenshot_20220318-213347_YouTube.jpg
 

CDR243

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Location
Gainesville, TX
I'd think it all comes down to what you want to do with it. A repair is not a bad thing if done correctly. If you look at some of the rebuilds guys like Texasgeartrain have done they can inspire one to bring a machine back to life or run and buy a Grizzly :)
 

S5rx7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
I want to rebuild, full scrape ect. That is my end goal. The bed is the only thing that scares me.
 

CDR243

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Location
Gainesville, TX
Finding people with a used bed is not too bad. I know Monarch can have some at times. One of the big rebuilders may chime in if the repair looks correct. I'm just getting started on getting my 62 up and running and plan to rebuild to factory new spec next year after my new shop is done.

I'm looking forward to seeing your project progress.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Absolutely worth restoring. 1948 would make it an early version series 60. Also listed as a 14", 16.5 actual, not too many of those around. By the time the series 60 migrated to series 61 there was not a 14".

Not a toolroom lathe though. No taper attachment, and no leadscrew reverse. Not a deal breaker, just pointing that out. Can still do really nice work.

Couldn't find specs, and your headstock speed chart is off. What's the spindle's top speed ?

The bed is no problem at all. Any working machine will end up with some dings. I'm guessing a work piece was thrown, due to its location away from chuck. The most important thing on way surface dings and bangs, is not to have a high spot. A high spot would dig into the surface of carriage or tail stock. Low and even surfaces will not. The bed is not cracked in half. The way surface took a shot, someone repaired it. You could fill what looks like a crack, but is a weld seam, with any sort of epoxy if your are concerned about fine debris gathering in it.

The clutch arm on apron is relativly easy to fix, and a common wear point on Monarchs. If only fixxing that you can leave apron on and that assembly un-bolts from bottom of apron. Remove leadscrew end bearing from tail stock side and slide it off. You need to make up inserts for that assembly. You can see what I did here at post #75, and probably a page or so prior to this post:
Monarch Series 61, Rebuilding for Improvement

In this same thread, page 6, post #115, is what I know about the leadscrew and drive gear on qcgb side. I did not take that fully apart. But it may be as simple as tightening nut to the left side of leadscrew's gear.

Some Vintage Machinery links you may have seen. One is a brochurefrom 1948, but no specs, but mentions a 14":

The pdf:

The 60 operators manual from 1956:

The pdf:
 
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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
One thing that may seem like a negative. You mentioned perhaps scraping and such. . .

I'm guessing whoever rebuilt it in 1975 put that flaking on the top side carriage. That's not from Monarch, and not a good practice. The top of dove tail does not matter, as cross slide is close but does not actually ride on it. Or at least its not supposed to, though it may touch on a more wore machine.

The outer way surfaces cross slide does ride on. Yes you want flaking, or a bearing surface. But not where you can see it. You want that bearing surface on bottom side of cross slide. The reason being is fine grit or debris can collect in it with it facing up and visible, and that debris can trash bottom side of cross slide. Way wipers will do their job better on a smooth flat surface.

Point being, dirt won't collect in flaking if its on the bottom side of cross slide and wipers will work better. Flaking done where visible was often for "looks", and not necessarily in the machines best interest. Same with the carriage itself, bearing surface on bottom side of carriage, not on bed way surfaces. Anyway, just a consideration if you plan a full blown rebuild.
 
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S5rx7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
Absolutely worth restoring. 1948 would make it an early version series 60. Also listed as a 14", 16.5 actual, not too many of those around. By the time the series 60 migrated to series 61 there was not a 14".

Not a toolroom lathe though. No taper attachment, and no leadscrew reverse. Not a deal breaker, just pointing that out. Can still do really nice work.

Couldn't find specs, and your headstock speed chart is off. What's the spindle's top speed ?

The bed is no problem at all. Any working machine will end up with some dings. I'm guessing a work piece was thrown, due to its location away from chuck. The most important thing on way surface dings and bangs, is not to have a high spot. A high spot would dig into the surface of carriage or tail stock. Low and even surfaces will not. The bed is not cracked in half. The way surface took a shot, someone repaired it. You could fill what looks like a crack, but is a weld seam, with any sort of epoxy if your are concerned about fine debris gathering in it.

The clutch arm on apron is relativly easy to fix, and a common wear point on Monarchs. If only fixxing that you can leave apron on and that assembly un-bolts from bottom of apron. Remove leadscrew end bearing from tail stock side and slide it off. You need to make up inserts for that assembly. You can see what I did here at post #75, and probably a page or so prior to this post:
Monarch Series 61, Rebuilding for Improvement

In this same thread, page 6, post #115, is what I know about the leadscrew and drive gear on qcgb side. I did not take that fully apart. But it may be as simple as tightening nut to the left side of leadscrew's gear.

Some Vintage Machinery links you may have seen. One is a brochurefrom 1948, but no specs, but mentions a 14":

The pdf:

The 60 operators manual from 1956:

The pdf:
The no leadscrew reverse kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth. The carriage would only move left to right or right to left. Witchever way it's supposed to go. That means the apron would only move in? Or out? There's a 61 parts machine next to it with reverse lead screw. I wonder if it's possible to swap QCGB🤔
 

CDR243

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Location
Gainesville, TX
The no leadscrew reverse kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth. The carriage would only move left to right or right to left. Witchever way it's supposed to go. That means the apron would only move in? Or out? There's a 61 parts machine next to it with reverse lead screw. I wonder if it's possible to swap QCGB🤔
You have a lead reverse; it's just not on the Apron. Here is the manual. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/19569.pdf
 

CDR243

Aluminum
Joined
Nov 8, 2022
Location
Gainesville, TX
Good eye, good eye.

On later machines, lead screw reverse has a rod, like feed rod going through apron.

Re-looking your vid, there's a short shaft coming out of headstock directly over qcgb. Thats leadscrew reverse. I missed it with covers and handle off.

I believe the series 60/61 tool room models have a rod/apron setup and the standard engine units have the lever on the headstock, no taper attachment, and no QC tailstock.
 

S5rx7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
I have downloaded every document I could for the 60/61. I have not stuck my nose to the grind stone and went over it all. Once I know for sure I'm going to redo the unit then I'll dig deep. Bed still scares me. I have to figure out every way to measure bed ware and that will really help me dictate my decision.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
You could also fix some of the immediate issues, and not do a full teardown right away. You could use the machine and get a feel for it.

The full length of bed might show wear, gradually rising toward toward tail stock. But also consider what type of work you'd like to do. Even a very wore out machine can hold probably .0002" over a 2" cut, and inside of .002" over 6". I think you'll find a lot of your cuts and work are short in length.
 

S5rx7

Plastic
Joined
Feb 26, 2022
You could also fix some of the immediate issues, and not do a full teardown right away. You could use the machine and get a feel for it.

The full length of bed might show wear, gradually rising toward toward tail stock. But also consider what type of work you'd like to do. Even a very wore out machine can hold probably .0002" over a 2" cut, and inside of .002" over 6". I think you'll find a lot of your cuts and work are short in length.
I would really like to get it leveled and see how wore out the bed is. If it's really wore ill find another. I have ocd and I usually don't use the machine until it's cleaned up and such.
 








 
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