Lathe and Mill Way Lubrication

CJD · Jan 10, 2020

I've been dousing the ways on my lathe and mill with oil after cleaning and before running a job. The up side is I figure lube has to be good. The down side is wet lube collects chips. Anyway, I caught glimpses of the ways on a couple UTube vid's where the lathe ways appear very dry, with just a wipe of oil. The upside of that is the chips don't stick, but the downside is less lube.

So, I wondered how most of you old heads run your ways...wet or just a wipe of oil?

13engines · Jan 10, 2020

To a great degree, if you have properly working way wipes on your machines, a lot of the oil added from the outside in just gets wiped away. Not a thing is mentioned about the normal oil systems on the machines? Are they not existent? Not working? If there do you pump them daily as recommended by the machine manufacturer? If they're there and working, why the need to add more as a daily matter of course? A little wipe off now and then I understand, but don't forget lubrication for the most part works at microscopic levels. Meaning if you're seeing any you're likely seeing enough.

I don't know... just one 2 cent train of thought. There are likely to be more donations from others. : -)

Dave

CJD · Jan 10, 2020

On the mill the lube pump works fine, but it is only adding oil at 15 minute intervals when a CNC job is actually running and very low volume. It also has pretty decent covering for the ways. The lathe has no built in lube with very exposed ways. I mention the mill, since it has ways too, but my main reason for the thread is the lathe.

13engines · Jan 10, 2020

Hmmm... wow. A lathe with no lube? No wonder you're slopping it on. Are you sure about that no lube? CNC? Manual? Make/Model? Is this a little bench top number?

I have a customer with an old Bridgeport clone. Maybe a Kondia or Comet or something. I was there at their shop some years ago checking it out. The thing had about a crank and a half of backlash on the screws and looked dry as hell. I went over to the side of the saddle and gave it a bunch of pumps on the oiler that was there. I nonchalantly asked that didn't he ever pump the lube? He said no. He didn't know it was there or what is was for.

Not saying this is you, but have you really looked hard for a plunger handle... somewhere?

Dave

CJD · Jan 10, 2020

Lathe is a Celtic 14. If there is a way oiler I haven’t found it. It’s got little oil cups for everything else, but not the ways. As for the Bridgeport...I can pump all day and it’s still only going to get a few cc’s an hour. I have been coating the ways sloppy wet, as they can’t be getting much from a total of a few cc’s an hour?!?

It’s sounding like I’m the only one coating the ways...?

13engines · Jan 11, 2020

I looked up your lathe. Pretty nice. Seems there are other threads on PM about it, but I couldn't find a picture of the apron and saddle that was close enough to take a look at how it might be oiled. You say there are oil cups on the machine. I'm wondering if you look closely if you can find some of the old style spring loaded ball oil ports that you stick the tip of your oil can into and give a squirt. They'd be flush with any surface and may be buried under some extra layers of paint? Here is a link to McMaster Carr showing what I'm talking about.

McMaster-Carr

Also wondered if you had only felt way wipes if they may be your only oiling device. Just a thought.

Anyway... that's about the last thing I can think of. Where are all your Celtic compadres to chime in?

Maybe a post in the Antique section would get you further then here in Bridgeport/Hardinge

Good luck!

Dave

CJD · Jan 11, 2020

Thanks, Dave. I’ll study the saddle to see what I can find. I have the manual...in French!?! It’s neither common nor sought after, but it was the first decent deal that came my way for a hobby lathe. From what you’re saying it is likely there is an oiler somewhere. I’ll let you know when I find it...

CJD · Jan 12, 2020

Spent all day installing a DRO on the lathe. I removed every bolt accessible on the saddle...no provisions for lube for the saddle or ways. The closest is the wipers are made of thick felt, with a place to add oil to the top of the felt. I think I’ll keep dousing my ways unless someone else chimes in with a reason not to...

13engines · Jan 12, 2020

Felt was pretty common on old machines of many types. The fact that you mentioned an oiling port to the felt on your machine tells me this is what the manufacturer considered the machines' way lubrication system. Maybe for a while, start doing your oiling there and see how it works. It's possible that it may work well enough to satiate your feelings on what's good or good enough.

If you ever thought to revive or renew the felt that's there now, McMaster Carr is also a good supplier of felt. They have many types to choose from.

Wondering what the manual you have on the machine says about oiling the felt. Time to bone up on your French? :-)

Dave

CJD · Jan 13, 2020

Absolument!

pieterb · Jan 13, 2020

You have a Celtic14? they are made about 5miles from my home, and I live in Belgium. That lathe has travelled a few miles! I have a Celtic 12 lathe (and a bridgeport series 1 mill). Standard there are no automatic or central oilers on the machine (I havend seen one anyway). I can take a few pictures of how you can lubricate everthing. Maybe you can send me a private email with a picture of your lathe, just to be sure we are talking about the same machine. I you have questions or you want something translated, I can help because my french isn't to bad and I think I have a dutch manual (dutch is my main language...)

CJD · Jan 14, 2020

That's pretty cool! Here's a picture:

She was used in a tech school in Massachusetts for her entire life. Then was bought by a fellow in New Hampshire before I had her shipped to Texas. She came with several broken gears, but I am working on taking care of those. Well worn, but still cuts very well and will do what I need to do.

pieterb · Jan 14, 2020

ok, that is why I asked the picture. You have the older, rounder model. I have the "newer", square model. But no problem because my colleague has the same as you. I asked him to make some pictures. I will send the to you by private mail. He lubricates the sadle/ways trough the holes in the felt covers. If you make sure the felt is soft it will work very good. he also installed felt and covers on the tailstock to have the same lubrication there. further there are oil points on the spindles and a grease point on the change gears. see pictures in your mail. he will also check his manual and I will make another post or mail with aditional info.

Turnaround007 · Jan 25, 2020

I worked all my life doing other things. Just when I retired, I bought a new 14" X 40" Chinese lathe. I am anal about moving the table from head stock side to tail stock side without first wiping the ways and reoiling with an oil can. My now ten year old lathe's ways look new.

thermite · Jan 25, 2020

CJD said:
The closest is the wipers are made of thick felt, with a place to add oil to the top of the felt.

And there you have it. It wudda been "normal" for the folk who used those lathes to put new, clean felt in once a year or more often as well.

Works better than a great many more complicated systems, too.

So long as the operator has the good habit of making use of it, and often, plus keeps good, clean felt in there, not varnished-solid crud that resembles decayed particle-board with embedded swarf and abrasives at the "cutting edge".

aanscharius · Nov 2, 2020

Hello,
I live in Belgium to and have recently taught a lathe which I'm working on. The motor is missing, there is a lot of work and I want to automate it as I make complete automated machines for other applications. I will get rid of the several gears and use a VFD to drive the motor with an encoder which will just speed so the rmp to m/s stays the same all the time.
The lead screw I will connect with encoded DC hightorque gear motors, the same for the both lateral and longitudinal spindles.
The machine weighs 3 tons without the motor, which has 5 pulleys. But I would like to know where it comes from. Send pictures tomorrow

pieterb · Nov 13, 2020

Hello aanscharius,

where do you live? I am interested in your automation plans. Do you have a celtic lathe?

Slusser · Dec 31, 2022

thermite said:
And there you have it. It wudda been "normal" for the folk who used those lathes to put new, clean felt in once a year or more often as well.

Works better than a great many more complicated systems, too.

So long as the operator has the good habit of making use of it, and often, plus keeps good, clean felt in there, not varnished-solid crud that resembles decayed particle-board with embedded swarf and abrasives at the "cutting edge".

Richard King · Dec 31, 2022

Slusser, I see your new. This thread is old...Nov. 2020 was when the last guy wrote. I will add
a little info. Lube systems with a lube pump like a Bridgeport have metering units that are designed to slowly release oil on the ways of the unexposed ways like the bottom of the saddle. There are way wipers that wipe the crap off the ways and help hold the oil under the saddle so there is a thin film of oil between the 2 iron surfaces. Most machine also have oil groves that distribute the oil under the ways. Many of the old or asian machines built today, don't have way wipers and crap moves under the ways. A tip to check wipers is ssee if you can slide a .002" feeler gage under the wiper.

A good machinist brushes off the chip and wipes the exposed ways after each use. Lousy fake machinists blow off the ways with compressed air - blowing crap in the ways. Making my job - Machine Rebuilder profitable. If the machine is going to sit a while and the shop has high humidity a good machinists wipes the ways with an oily rag or sprays the shinny parts of machines and tools with oil or a wax. If it sits awhile he wipes the ways before use. In the oild dayss we briched the chips off and if you got caught blowing the ways off, you got fired.

4GSR · Dec 31, 2022

Slusser,

Looks like something went wrong with your post. What you posted is what Thermite posted above. May want to repost what you wanted to say.

Ken

Lathe and Mill Way Lubrication

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