Project HBM-3" Forges de Gilley

Wasn't sure the best place to post this, there isn't an HBM thread and this is HBM is technically made in Belgium. But the larger manual machine tool forum seemed like the best spot.

I got this HBM, among a bunch of other machinery, in a deal where I was being essentially given a bunch of surplus equipment. The guys getting rid of stuff has this HBM sitting outside in a park lot.

I like these Europen HBM's more than the American machines to be honest, built in boring/facing head, rotary table, line boring tailstock make a lot of sense to me. I've never unserstood why the American machines never seem to have those piece of tooling. This HBM would also cut threads if I had the change gears, but I do not have them.

Been slowly working on bring this thing back to life, recently pulled the motor. It's 440V only, so probably be finding a new(er) 220V motor.

Also starting to work on getting handles and levers freed up. Got this speed selection levers to move, but I want to get into the gear box to make sure there ins't any damage or rusting.

This machine was sitting outside un-protected for years before I got it.

Looks like this gear box opens up easily, just come some cap heads holding the cover down. But these levers are in the way, and I can not figure out how to get them off.

Wondering if Tyrone Shoelaces, our resident HBM expert has ever worked on one of these.

Amazingly the DRO actually powered up.

A Nixie tube dro? That's cool.

Don't sweat the voltage, just buy a transformer. Swapping voltage also means new heaters for the contactors and new coils if it's line voltage controls. The transformer will also be useful for the next 480v machine.

I agree,

My shop is 480, IF I had a shop with 240 I would buy a transformer. There is just way too much to change in most machines. That looks like it has potential.

Steve

gbent said:

A Nixie tube dro? That's cool.

Click to expand...

It may not be Nixie. There was a line of incandescent look-alikes in that era. I might even still have a few. Native colour is white, the rest done with a colour filter overlay.

They basically run a linear incandescent filament for each segment, and with bypass/ overlap are able to get smaller gaps between segment corners than neon technology could do. Also operate at lower voltages. Measuring the operating voltage driving them will tell that tale.

+1 On the transformer. Placed close to source, lighter wiring runs can serve the machine(s).

Be interesting to see how it runs. There was one for sale near me a few years back. It even had metric and imperial thread cutting capabilities

I don't think its an actual nixie tube display, sure would be cool if it were though. I kinda like this readout, the numbers are quite large (2"+) and easy to see. I doubt the scales work, but who knows.

The motor has a cracked housing so highly doubt it works. Was planning on taking it to work to test it though.

But, Im not worried about the motor right now.

I want to get those gear shifting lever shafts off in order to inspect the gear box. I can see some minor rusting through an inspection port and knowing the neglect this machine has seen, I want to make sure there aren't any surprises in there waiting for me.

I believe this would do Inch/Metric threading. Its got a lead screw and gear system on the quill, as well as a small thread chart. All the tags are in Inch/Metric as well. But I dont have any of the change gears or their needed dimentions.

alskdjfhg said:

The motor has a cracked housing so highly doubt it works. Was planning on taking it to work to test it though.

But, Im not worried about the motor right now.

Click to expand...

No need to tote and carry that heavy b**h. Easy enough to test it in-place.
If it needs replaced? Might be able to go to 240, eliminate the need of a 240 <=> 480 transformer outright, or at least need only a much smaller one.

I believe this would do Inch/Metric threading. Its got a lead screw and gear system on the quill, as well as a small thread chart. All the tags are in Inch/Metric as well. But I dont have any of the change gears or their needed dimentions.

Click to expand...

Having the ability to thread bores on large "objects" could be a useful edge as to services a shop can attract trade with. PM community can probably find the information if not also the gears. Or a "reasonable facsimile thereof" - in due course.

The planer is 440v only, so not opposed to a transformer, but not worrying about that right now.

thermite said:

Having the ability to thread bores on large "objects" could be a useful edge as to services a shop can attract trade with. PM community can probably find the information if not also the gears. Or a "reasonable facsimile thereof" - in due course.

Click to expand...

No doubt, but worried more about getting those shafts out of the way so I can do some poking around the insides of the machine. Doesn't seem to be any fasteners or pins holding that together. A little confusing.

Once those shafts are out of the way, getting a look at that gear box doesn't look to bad. Then have to figure out someway to inspect the head.

Hoping I can work on it without removing it.

Matt,
With my limited experience, I assume that the shifters are connected to the cover and, if this is the case, I think that chances are fairly high that you can remove the cover only when the shifters are in a specific position (i.e. the machine is in a specific gear), something that is not trivial in your situation. I don't remember it very well, but I believe that, that was the case with the gearbox of my VN 22L.

I bet you could get a better idea of what to do by inspecting inside with a flash-light and a mirror.
If the shaft is connected to the frame (directly or indirectly) under the cover, increase the search for set screw and taper pins on the cylinders with the levers.

Unless somebody has worked on the same or very similar machine, we would need to know a bit more and have more close-up pictures to give decent suggestions.

Paolo

No I've never worked on a " Forges de Gilly " HBM Matt. Over here " Kearns " and " Richards " dominated the market with " Giddings, Lewis and Fraser " having a decent share.

I thought I could see the end of a taper pin sticking out of the upper selector boss in your photo. Be sure to find the tail end and be sure to mark the boss to the shaft .

Regards Tyrone.

Paolo_MD said:

Matt,
With my limited experience, I assume that the shifters are connected to the cover and, if this is the case, I think that chances are fairly high that you can remove the cover only when the shifters are in a specific position (i.e. the machine is in a specific gear), something that is not trivial in your situation. I don't remember it very well, but I believe that, that was the case with the gearbox of my VN 22L.

Click to expand...

It feels like the cover and shafts are separate. With the bolts out, the cover moves freely and is clearly blocked by the levers. No matter what what position they were in.

The gears shift and the input pulley can be turned by hand freely. There must be a separate clutch.

Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I thought I could see the end of a taper pin sticking out of the upper selector boss in your photo. Be sure to find the tail end and be sure to mark the boss to the shaft .

Click to expand...

That's what I thought it might be as well, but if it is, it's really in there.

How complicated are these guys inside the spindle head? My guess would be packed right full of gears, especially with the boring/facing head.

I always laugh when I see ITEK technology. ITEK was started by Richard Leghorn who worked for Eastman Kodak after a stint in the air force. The rumor was that while it was supposed to be named for "information technology" it really meant "I Took Eastman Kodak".

alskdjfhg said:

getting those shafts out of the way so I can do some poking around the insides of the machine. Doesn't seem to be any fasteners or pins holding that together. A little confusing.

Click to expand...

HOPEFULLY.. they can stay with the cover, forks be lifted out, still attached, as already posited.

The hubs have a very similar shape and lever departure angle to those on my late 1940's design era roughly 1950-51 delivery date Alzmetall AB5/S.

That one clearly exhibits the rounded ends of what would appear to be a taper-pin. Problem is, both ends, 180 degrees apart are not only the same apparent size, the distance (I traffic in such pins and their reamers) is far to long for any single standard pin US or metric - to span.

So have an opposed pair of "blind" taper pins. Or a cross-pin, ends upset, and not at all tapered.

I'm inclined to avoid work around that as it dasn't seem to have set a foot wrong in 65 or so years, and hope to just not ever have to care.

If you don't have one, look around a bit at the current crop of fairly cheap "bore scopes" with screens, etc. They keep getting cheaper and somewhat more flexible (though still kind of fat for some work.) Plumber had one at my house a while ago.

Anyway, point being, they've come a long way, and their utility for inspecting things inside walls or more to the point under covers seems to have improved (to my eye.)

Note also that on something like an fp1 you have to disassemble a fair collection of stuff just to get the back plates off.... You may be in the same boat...

bryan_machine said:

If you don't have one, look around a bit at the current crop of fairly cheap "bore scopes" with screens, etc. They keep getting cheaper and somewhat more flexible (though still kind of fat for some work.) Plumber had one at my house a while ago.

Anyway, point being, they've come a long way, and their utility for inspecting things inside walls or more to the point under covers seems to have improved (to my eye.)

Note also that on something like an fp1 you have to disassemble a fair collection of stuff just to get the back plates off.... You may be in the same boat...

Click to expand...

Brill! Gots to be reviews and comparison articles online to help choose an appropriate one.

I can use that, too! Besides drain plugs and the odd access cover, I also have sight glasses that need pulled and replaced, anyway.

Gave one of these as a gift to my Father in Law the other week, seems like a decent little camera for the money. WiFi to your smartphone/tablet for the display. Focal point is probably 2" or so, but usable further out, just blurry.

Amazon.com: Wireless Endoscope, Depstech WiFi Borescope Inspection Camera 2. Megapixels HD Snake Camera for Android and IOS Smartphone, iPhone, Samsung, Tablet - Black(11.5FT): Industrial & Scientific

rbent said:

Gave one of these as a gift to my Father in Law the other week, seems like a decent little camera for the money. WiFi to your smartphone/tablet for the display. Focal point is probably 2" or so, but usable further out, just blurry.

Amazon.com: Wireless Endoscope, Depstech WiFi Borescope Inspection Camera 2. Megapixels HD Snake Camera for Android and IOS Smartphone, iPhone, Samsung, Tablet - Black(11.5FT): Industrial & Scientific

Click to expand...

Saved me buying a Milwaukee M12 just to match the rest of the collection. Thanks!

Here's a start at others. Lot's of U-tube stuff out there, too:

"https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-inspection-cameras"

"https://www.bestreviews.guide/inspection-cameras"

"http://borescopereview.com/"

thermite said:

So have an opposed pair of "blind" taper pins. Or a cross-pin, ends upset, and not at all tapered.

Click to expand...

Thatll be fun to get apart.

But that makes sense, if so visual inspection and first start up with fingers crossed it probably all it will get.

rbent said:

Gave one of these as a gift to my Father in Law the other week, seems like a decent little camera for the money. WiFi to your smartphone/tablet for the display. Focal point is probably 2" or so, but usable further out, just blurry.

Amazon.com: Wireless Endoscope, Depstech WiFi Borescope Inspection Camera 2. Megapixels HD Snake Camera for Android and IOS Smartphone, iPhone, Samsung, Tablet - Black(11.5FT): Industrial & Scientific

Click to expand...

That did come to mine, ive been meaning to get one for a long time.

Not only cheaper than the real deal (Milwakee, etc), that gland end of the camera is significantly smaller than the self contained tool.

RC99 said:

Be interesting to see how it runs. There was one for sale near me a few years back. It even had metric and imperial thread cutting capabilities

Click to expand...

Very strange experience screwcutting on a hbm

alskdjfhg said:

Thatll be fun to get apart.

But that makes sense, if so visual inspection and first start up with fingers crossed it probably all it will get.

Click to expand...

MOST of us should do a great deal more of that. Run what we got. Take a repair/replace decision only when we must do.

The machinery, computers, vehicles? Land and buildings, even.... in our lives?

They were MEANT to carry us on their backs. To feed US!

Not the reverse.

Too much of the wrong sort of baggage on your back - or in your BED - can starve a body to death, tedious slow and nasty-like.