HES lathes

I bought a HES 16 lathe. I think HES is an acronym for H. Ernault Somua of France. The lathe supposedly was in a prototype shop of an integrated circuit test and manufacturing equipment maker. The lathe is powerful[15HP] and well tooled[A-type spindle nose]. It is a '78 model and shows little wear. Most all of the HES lathes on the internet are 20 inch units and equipped with tracer units. Does anyone have any knowledge of these lathes? Is there a successor company? I hope Mr. Nguyen can help.
Thanks,
Larry

Hi Larry

I have an HES lathe, but much smaller than yours (ac 280).

As far as i know, HES machines are generally well considered by by people who use them, and I know several machinists who wouldn't trade a HES Cholet for a CAZENEUVE.

That said, I've never heard about the HES 16, but I'm much more into smaller machines.

Could you please post several pics ?

Thank you for your prompt reply. I'm a computer novice and this ISP is making me crazy. I'm afraid to even attempt posting pictures. If you go to machinetools.com and enter HES when you are in the used lathes section you will see a 16 and 20 inch example. The 16 inch unit shown is a '76 model that is different in two respects i.e.; it lacks a main drive clutch and the bed length is 18 inches greater. Lacking a clutch necessitates more frequent use of the off/footbrake function and may require a heavier duty phase converter. My present shop has 3 phase but I do not have a lease. If forced to move I would downsize the motor to 7.5HP. If you have no objections I will try to E-mail some photos to you.
Thanks,
Larry

This is my 1st attempt @ loading pics. Please be patient.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/tooljunky2001/esi012.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/tooljunky2001/esi007.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/tooljunky2001/esi005.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/tooljunky2001/esi002.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n33/tooljunky2001/HES003.jpg
Thanks,
Larry

I ran one that size, and a couple of other sizes. Two of them had GE 550 NC controls. They were ok to good lathes. Toyoda bought out HES sometime in the mid to late 80's. It looks like yours has rapid on the carrage, a nice feature.

One thing I remember was plastic waylube lines on the cross slide. You will want to verify the lines haven't been melted by hot chips, as they are unprotected from the underside of the carrage. 15 HP will throw a lot of hot chips!

gbent,
Thank you for relating your experiences and the tip. I'll be sure to check for proper lubricant flow. Larry

I used to run one that size or a little larger. It may have been an older machine, because the headstock controls look a little different. I didn't run it very much, because another employee ran it full time. This one had run a lot of cast iron over it's lifetime, and it's ways weren't in the best of shape.....but it had been a great lathe at one time. I could never get used to the gap bed configuration of the cross slide/carriage wheels being backward. I really hate that.

A friend of mine bought the machine and put it in his barn and he's had nothing but trouble with it because it doesn't like his rotary phase converter. Every time you turn on the spindle, you turn on the motor, which is hard on the system.


rockfish

rockfish,
I'm sure the bass ackward controls are going to be confusing. My other, smaller lathe is a South Bend that I've had for years. I'm anticipating ruined parts for a while.
Larry

Larry:
Guess i am with rockfish on the controls. Ran a 15" Colchester with a gap bed for a time that had the cross and lomg feed reversed like your lathe. Guess i have some short circuts about all this but i could just never get to where i could comfortably run that machine. Was always getting it wrong and moving into the work in the "Z" when i wanted to back off the "X". I finally cured the trouble by reversing my hands. Put my right hand forward on the cross handwheel, and my left on the long feed wheel. Felt a bit awkward but stopped making spoiled parts. Guess if it becomes your only lathe you will adjust in time, for me i was running several lathes at the time so could never get the switch in my muscle memory to take. As a result the handle position for me has become a choice criteria in any future lathe considerations.....
Hope you enjoy your machine!
Cheers Ross

Boy..... haven't any of you ever run a Hardinge Chucker? They have the "Z axis" handle on the right and he "X axis" on the left. We had numerous chuckers and then conventional lathes.... yeah, they were opposite, but you just ran them..... don't remember anybody having much issue with it..... LOL!

Hi all,
The HES still hasn't arrived. It's a pain in the butt waiting for less than load shipments that require a flat bed. The deals seem to fall apart at the last minute. I was misled(unintentionally) by the dealer. The lathe does not have a clutch. The salesman was not familiar with HES lathes and must have misunderstood something his customer told him. Anyway, the dealer is giving me 16 Lyndex 5C collets because of the misunderstanding. If I lose my shop--I don't have a lease--I will down size the lathe to 7.5HP and get a VFD. That size VFD would run any 2 other machines in my shop. Since it is a hobby shop only 1 machine at a time will be running. These HES lathes have some unusual design features. The main spindle speed transmission is a 6 speed unit and sits below the headstock. Power is transmitted via vee belts to the headstock. I've read that lathe manufacturers did this to uncouple the gear train from the spindle to achieve better surface finishes. But HES, in their wisdom, adds a 3 range selector in the headstock to yield 18 speeds. Go figure. The salesman referred to the six speed transmission as a "preselector". With my scant knowledge I assumed this meant the lathe was a hydrashift style that can be shifted on the fly. I was happy to learn that isn't the case. I'm wondering what other surprises await me. Larry

Hi all,
The HES 16--also known as the model Cholet 435--arrived last week. It is in very good condition. The compound slide hasn't been scarred by the chucks. The bed is also free from dings near the headstock. The lathe has some unusual features. The carriage and tailstock feed hand wheels are equipped with matte chrome collars calibrated in 0.01" increments. The ways for the carriage are replacable-- both front vee and rear flat. The cross feed has a stop that is engaged by a small toggle that rotates through a 90 degree arc. Once the stop is engaged it may be finely adjusted by a micrometer like thimble. The European/International icons on the controls baffle me. The parts list is in French. The line drawings are in a style that I find confusing. The drawings show part numbers only. There is no text description of the part. Parts were to be ordered using the model and serial number along with the illustration and part number. An on-line search yielded a parts source in the Washington,D,C. area. The instruction manual didn't accompany the lathe. Machinery Manuals and lathes.co.uk have manuals available, as does MAL MACHINE TOOLS, LLC. Howard Waxler is an employee at MAL's. Even though I didn't buy the HES 16 he has available--he has taken the time to answer my many questions. I've got to get started rewiring the motor and control transformer for 240V.
Thanks,
Larry

Hi all,
No progress to report on lathe wiring. I got side-tracked. Part of the confusion with the parts manual was that so many of the illustrations did not pertain to my lathe. I took apart the binding and removed the drawings that weren't needed. That helped me make some sense of what remained. Still being confused I decided to remove the cover from the headstock. This cleared up how the odd three position range selector works. There are some lathes--Hendey or P&W--where the spindle is concentric within a shorter hollow shaft that has its own bearings and is driven by belts or gears. On the HES the shorter hollow shaft carries the 6 sheave pulley. In high range the pulley and the spindle run at the same speed. Medium and slow ranges are effectively 2 back gears selected by the range shifter. Unfortunately, the feed and threading gear train didn't match my parts manual. Oh well, if it is working OK I don't need a parts manual. I discovered another feature I haven't seen before. The cross slide completely covers the length of its male dovetail. The top of the cross slide has another male dovetail its full length. There is no portion of the cross slide machined to take the pivoting tool slide. There is an extra casting that has a female dovetail machined in its bottom. This casting which mounts the pivoting tool slide to its top surface can be clamped anywhere along the full length of the cross slide. It's a simple matter to adjust the position of the tool slide to suit the diameter of the work. A rear mounted cut off tool would also be possible. Enough rambling.
Thanks,
Larry

Congratz on your Cholet 435, as we call them in Denmark! I've used the 435, and a 550 as well and must say that it is my overall preferred lathe to use.. Once you get the hang of it, and it's brilliant thread function, you'll never want a different machine.. I've used Graziano, Colchester, Huron and a load of other brands but the favorite will always be the Cholet!! The oldest one I have seen, was dated 1964, I think, with a round casted gearbox. Still running today..

Hope you get it running!
Kind regards
Søren

Hi Soren,
Thank you for your comments. I apologise for not spelling your name correctly. I can't superimpose the / on the o. The HES brand is not well known in the US. I see more about their Cri-Dan threading lathes than their other products. I have found a source for HES, Cri-Dan, and Ernault Toyada parts and literature. His literature prices are one fourth to one eighth of other sources I found. Most parts for the HES lathes are available. He is a former HES/USA employee and bought their parts stock when they closed that part of their US operations. The company name is K and D Machine Tool Parts Inc. Their web address is http://www.machineparts.ws/. They even accept credit cards. I should recieve my instruction manual next week. I think some of the controls are both electrical and mechanical. For instance, the carriage apron joystick. The three positions select cross feed--threading--longitudinal feed--top to bottom. In each of the three positions you can control the direction of travel by momentarily moving the spring loaded joystick left or right from its center position. I think that is what the icons are showing. I removed the piece around the joystick and found a microswitch that operates each time the joystick is moved left or right. There is also a mechanical control on the head stock that reverses travel. I dont think any of the headstock controls can be operated while the motor is running. I'm guessing the microswitch works something in the apron. Maybe a gear that can be added or removed to change the direction of the motion. This machine does NOT have the rapid traverse. Neither K and D or MAl had ever seen a HES without one. It must have been deleted on a special factory order. Thanks for listening.
Larry

Hi Larry!
I've have never seen a Cholet without the rapid function, either.. Well, some where it has been removed for safety reasons!!
I know the microswitches are there when it works, so maybe your rapid is removed elsewhere..
The handles on the gearbox is a history in it self! There is one that reverses the feed direction, during operation, that allows you to make threads without switching spindle direction. Feel free to switch that during operation. Combine that with the stop on the length axis, and you are making threads in a second...
Feel free to ask if you need any information or documentation, because we have maybe 50 machines left in our company like yours, and we have our documentation in order (mostly!!)

Cheers

Søren

[ 10-15-2006, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: søren ]

Soren,
Thanks for your generous offer. Isn't Denmark's language similar to Deutsch? Sadly, my high school German has deserted me. If you have English versions I may ask for your help. I will know more later this week. Larry

Hi Larry!
Just scanned through a couple of set of documentation, and as in your case it's in french..
Maybe time for some evening class education?
When I pass some more sets, I'll look it through!
And, no, Danish is not very similar to German, it's said to be one of the most diffucult languages to learn because many words have a double meaning.. Don't know why, thougt it was easy lo learn
Søren

Hi guys

Unfortunately, I don't own a Cholet, and never used one...

But if you have a problem understanding french, I'm sure I can help. Feel free to ask and I'll do my best !

Soren- thank you for your efforts. If you come across an English language version I'd like to know. How many pages long is the manual?
Nguyen--Thank you for your generous offer. I emailed K and D about the instruction manual. He has not had a chance to have copies made. K and D told me the instruction manual is in the same format--fold out pages of a non US standard size--as the parts list. Hopefully he will bring it to his printer next week. He has orders for several manuals but at $25 each it isn't his top priority. I must wait.In one of our past conversations he told me that the 15HP shown on the control panel is "optimistic". The input is 11KW. Dividing 11KW by 747W=15HP. The motor output is approximately 11-12HP at 75-80% efficiency. Inflated horsepower claims are common in the USA but not often found on machine tools.
Thank you gentlemen.
Larry