FP4NC/A central lube issue

Martin P · Oct 20, 2022

I am working on an FP4AT that sat for about 10 years.
I noticed that apparently ALL lube valves were stuck shut and so I had to remove, clean, reassemble them all.
On the z / x axis I made a mistake and removed a row of valves and now no longer know which lines they were connected to. Very easy to mix up now.
There seems to be no picture of this in the parts catalog.
Anybody have a clue?
See also the upper left valve. I do not know were this sits!

See this picture:

DeadMahoDude · Oct 20, 2022

Not valves, but oil pressure delivery/metering units.

Basically small cylinders with piston and spring, that gets filled/compressed with oil from central way oil (Vogel) pump.

If that Vogel way oil pump runs, it pumps oil into cylinder, compressing piston with spring behind it.

Small cylinder with spring then keeps oil pressure and delivers way oil until spring is fully out.

AFAIK, there are minor differences, on how much oil these things keep inside, so they have different numbers (1x 24400059 and 6x 24400060)
Apart from that, it shouldn't really matter, which line goes where. IMO much more important, that all delivery units are free and oil gets delivered everywhere.

Martin P · Oct 20, 2022

I know.
Please excuse my simplification of terminology for your reading ease.
Point is, it is important how much oil goes where.
I now have a bunch of lines and do not know which valves (3 different volume flows) they go to.
And the plan does not show.

AlfaGTA · Oct 20, 2022

DeadMahoDude said:
AFAIK, there are minor differences, on how much oil these things keep inside, so they have different numbers (1x 24400059 and 6x 24400060)
Apart from that, it shouldn't really matter, which line goes where. IMO much more important, that all delivery units are free and oil gets delivered everywhere.

Sorry man, not buying...
Close might be good enough for navel gunfire, not for the lubrication of a precision CNC machine tool.
Checks are sized at different delivery points for a good reason.
Checks might have similar capacities, but they deliver the lube at different rates.
Some points need heavier lube at the outset, some fair better with longer slower delivery...that's the point.
Too much oil and slides can "float" and dimensional stability can suffer...important on a CNC machine....
Deckel worried enough about this in that they hold lube cycles until the machine is idle or executing a rapid feed move.....They get it!

Too little lube and excess wear will result

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA · Oct 20, 2022

Martin:
Have an FP3NC "Flip" here at home that i can have a look at...likely similar machine.
Will be back at work on Sunday if you can wait and will look at my FP4NC to see if i can identify the checks and their relative positions.
Have been in here some time back , but i did each one at a time in order not to mix up anything.

Can you give a bit more info:
Are the checks installed in their original position and you have lost track of which lube lines to connect ot which , or are you unclear as to which check goes in each position on the manifold?
Cheers Ross

Martin P · Oct 21, 2022

Ross, please no trouble on your side.
I can look it up on one of my own machines, it's just inconvenient.
I hoped someone might have a lube diagram.
The check valves are all in place, I just lost track of which line goes to which valve.

Note to all: Check you lube system. Ob this machine ALL check valves were sticking.

AlfaGTA · Oct 21, 2022

Martin:
Drawing you posted appears to have the lengths and position of the lube lines if i am not mistaken.
Would it be possible to disconnect each line at the check and "snake" a fine wire up inside the tube to gauge its length.
Thinking something like fine stainless safety wire......
There look to be only 3 different sized checks...So you only need to verify the two lines that go from (1) the second check from the right on the drawing at 420 mm long and (2) the number 7 check from the right at 270mm length. The other 5 have the same sized check so any of the remaining lines are OK....
Cheers Ross

Martin P · Oct 21, 2022

I have not been at the machine yet, but yes this is a good elimination approach.
I have to take a picture of this assembly. Very inaccessible.

For the lines on the side of the machine everything is so nicely shown in the parts manual, but for the knee there is absolutely nothing.
I will report.

Deckel Fan · Nov 30, 2022

They are all marked with a number 3 so they are identical.
It simply doesn’t matter where you screw them in.
By the way the number 3 means a distribution of 0,03 cm³ per stroke.
Kind regards Stephan

Peter from Holland · Nov 30, 2022

I have different problems with a Vogel central lubing system on my recently aquire FP4MK
The motor keeps running The pressure switch is working and the pushbutton for a manual cycle also
Both red and green indicatorlight are on
The control unit in it is a Vogel IG38
Perhaps that is the problem
anyone can confirm this or can there be another reasson
Peter

Deckel Fan · Dec 13, 2022

The IG 38 is complex relay. It does not only count that pressure is high at some point of the cycle it also counts when the pressure gets high...

It might be that the relay is bad and that timing is no longer correct.
So I would ty to change it out.

Peter from Holland · Dec 13, 2022

If you have more information about it I would be happy to share it with you
Still not solved the problem

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FP4NC/A central lube issue

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