Who makes a high speed HMC

JRIowa · Aug 6, 2007

We have an "end of the year" project and need a small horizontal machining center with a very high speed spindle.

Here's what we've looked at so far:
Mazak HCN-5000 - 20" squ. pallets 18K RPM spindle
Matsuura H-plus 405 - 20" squ. pallets 30K RPM spindle
Enshu LE70 - 20" squ. pallets 20K RPM spindle

I'd like 40-50K RPM on the spindle with about that sized machine with HSK63 holders. We don't want a special built machine for this application. We really need something that's off the shelf and can be delivered in less than 60 days.
JR

Ox · Aug 6, 2007

Not sure what they have down in that size range - but DMG had that fairly good sized HMC with linears and such at the show. I would like to think they offer a quick little guy like your looking at if they got fast big ones?

Sweatin' to the Oldies!
Ox

WILLEO6709 · Aug 6, 2007

I have never seen one with a " standard spindle " faster than what you list. You might be looking at a spindle speeder attachment for those. You might try Toyoda - I have excellent results with mine, and Makino makes decent iron. Kitamura might have something. For a 500 mm pallet those are pretty standard speeds from what I have seen, but I have not been paying attention to HMC's the last couple IMTS shows . You know your application, I am just curious why you want to go so fast on rpm.

Joe788 · Aug 6, 2007

JR, I think the 40K spindle may be a little hard to find. I know Mazak used to offer one on the FH series of HMCs, but I don't know about he Nexus series.

Here's a Toyoda a saw the other day on one of the used websites:

http://www.msiused.com/mach/605-Toyoda-DM-450.htm

And an Okuma with a 25K spindle:

http://www.machinery-management.com/cncm/4298.htm

Just out of curiosity, why the 40,000rpm spindle?

Here's an old video I found on youtube.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG_A6gvOS24

JP Machining · Aug 6, 2007

While not a HMC, Datron does make machines with 60K spindles.

JP

vmcman · Aug 6, 2007

Matsuura all the way! I am a little biased though.

If you have questions about Matsuura, look me up: [email protected]

Scott
MMT

JRIowa · Aug 6, 2007

Ox, the Deckel is nice! Probably more $ than we have, but I'll look. Thanks!

Willie and Joe, Thanks for the leads, I just got a call back from the Makino rep and he said that they have a 40K spindle available now.

Why 40K RPM??? Lots and Lots of small holes. We drill as small as 0.049". Most are around 0.0625" with the new coated carbide drills that are out, we are seeing 700 SFM in 316 SS. For a 1/16" drill, that's 45K RPM. Right now, we can buy 2mm (0.080") oil hole drills! With polycrystaline diamond coating on the horizon, and smaller oil hole drills, I think that 1,000 SFM drills are no more that a couple of years away. I need to buy as fast as I can get now, because in 5 years, it will be obsolete.

FWIW, my definition of Lots and Lots is over 50,000 holes in one part. The most that I know about was 147,000 holes in one part.
JR

Joe788 · Aug 6, 2007

147,000?? Wow! Do you have pictures of any of these parts?

Which Makino machine are they offering you with the 40K spindle?

WILLEO6709 · Aug 6, 2007

the catch with makino is that I don't think they use standard fanuc ladder. They use a software named pro 3 in the past or pro 5 now I believe. Its still fanuc but Makino puts their software twist on it. My preference would be fanuc ladder all the way. be sure you ask that question/ have your cnc maint. staff investigate that aspect. For your app. it may not be an issue but anything I bought planning on running it into the dirt and working on myself I'd try to get real ladder.

Ox · Aug 6, 2007

Ox, the Deckel is nice! Probably more $ than we have,

COUGH! CHOKE! HACK! stumble...

...WHAT-EVERRRR!

It's your story I guess... you tell it the way you want....

LOL!

JRIowa · Aug 6, 2007

JP,
I looked at the Datron website and only saw verticals. This needs to be a horizontal machine.

Joe,
Sorry, no pictures. I even looked at our website and they don't show much. We're pretty secrative on that. The Makino was an A-51 with mold making spindle. Should have quote tomorrow.

Willie,
I asked our maint tech about the Makino ladder and he said he'd rather have that than a Mazak.

Ox,
I know that it's hard to believe, but we don't get everything we want. I even buy used machines to stretch that $. I'll submit a capital budget of about $2.9M for next year. We'll probably get about half. This project will probably take 20% of that. I've got 2 other projects that will require about $500K each. That doesn't leave much money for everything else. When you make big parts, you have big equipment which comes with a big price tag.
JR

vmcman · Aug 6, 2007

The Makino and Matsuura guys are the same in your area right?

Scott
MMT

JRIowa · Aug 6, 2007

Correct Scott,
I've been on the phone with Gahlen @ Productivity
JR

Ox · Aug 6, 2007

BTW - It was mentioned aboot going with a speeder.

Does someone know af a mechanical speeder that goes that fast?

Sweatin' to the Oldies!
Ox

JRIowa · Aug 7, 2007

Ox,
I've done a lot of looking at these also.

Madaula makes a 30K
http://www.euro-technics.com/speeder_heads.html

Techleader does 18K as standard
http://www.techleader.com/spindlespeeders.htm

Ibag makes a power spindle that runs seperate of the machine spindle and is available to 60K
http://www.ibagnorthamerica.com/pdfs/plugngo.pdf

Eltools makes a coolant driven unit
http://www.eltool.com/drillheads.pdf

CNC toolholders sells the Centerline brand IIRC, about 18K
http://www.cnctoolholders.com/default.asp

And TPS does 18K
http://www.tpsintl.com/omg.htm

Just remember, above 10K steep taper holders like CAT, BT, DIN 69871 don't work very well. You need to go with a multi contact holder like HSK, KM, or CAPTO.
JR

Ox · Aug 7, 2007

I was watching a Lyndex on EBAY recently that was said to be good for 20K @ 3x ratio I think? That was a Cat 50 unit and only had 3/8" capacity collet of some sorts.

I know of the IBAG - but their units either swap out the complete spindle assy or plug into the OEM spindle making the toy changer N/A as far as I know eh? (Also why I mentioned "mechanical".)

4.5+" rain in the last two days and still sweatin' to the Oldies!
Muggier than ever now!
Ox

Alum chips · Aug 7, 2007

These guys "standard" high speed spindle is 20,000 but when I talked to them last year...year and a half, you could go 40,000 If you went to the BT30 holder.

(I think) I am a little fuzzy on the details as I banged my head on the floor after looking at the quote

I think you could go 2 for 1 of the H-plus 405's
Gary

http://www.yasda.co.jp/seihin/H30i/h30i-p_e.htm

shuvom · Aug 5, 2017

Grob
Kitamura

60m/min & 18,000 std spindle.

shuvom · Aug 12, 2017

Hi JR,

Don't you think 40k on a HSK 63 spindle is difficult.

Finding tool holders which are balanced to 25k on a 63 hollow shank is really a challenge.

Regards,

Shuvo

JRIowa said:
We have an "end of the year" project and need a small horizontal machining center with a very high speed spindle.

Here's what we've looked at so far:
Mazak HCN-5000 - 20" squ. pallets 18K RPM spindle
Matsuura H-plus 405 - 20" squ. pallets 30K RPM spindle
Enshu LE70 - 20" squ. pallets 20K RPM spindle

I'd like 40-50K RPM on the spindle with about that sized machine with HSK63 holders. We don't want a special built machine for this application. We really need something that's off the shelf and can be delivered in less than 60 days.
JR

Who makes a high speed HMC

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Diamond

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