Horizontal Bandsaw What to buy?

I have read numerous posts in the archives, but I'm still not sure what to buy. I currently have a POS 4x6 shop fox. Most of us have had a saw built like this and are aware of the issues with it. I have a home/hobby shop where I usually build and tinker for myself so I do not have a need for a big or production type saw. I 'm tired of the issue's I'm having and ready to move on so here are a list of my priorities.
1. The blade must stay on. I currently spend most of my sawing time reinstalling the blade.
2. Fairly small footprint. I'm sure the older machines are great and last forever, but from the pics I've seen they are pretty big.
3. Thinking of going to a 7x12 saw. Many are available, most look identical.
4. Price. I put this last, but probably should be first. $1500 max this will include shipping. I'm not set on a new saw and I do sort of enjoy a tear down and rebuild from time to time.
5. Also a must 110 volt. NO THREE PHASE, 220 is doable, but not preferred.

With all this said. I have looked a the Ellis machines online and I like the set up, but without finding one used, there to high. Although I'm sure great quality.I found a new Dake/Johnson SE 712 tonight that really looks like a nice saw. Could anyone tell me about their newer saws? I've read plenty about there older stuff, mostly to good reviews.
Also looking at a Baileigh BS-712. Another good looking saw, but can't find any reviews on it. Both of these saws are are at the extreme top, or just over, of my price range, but I don't want to be working on my saw instead of using it like I am now and I am aware quality costs money.
I've not read many good reviews on Jet products. I've looked at the J-3410 and at around $1000 is doable, Wilton looks like the same saw. We have a 4 yr old Jet at work which is rarely used and when cutting some 12" and 16" wide 3/4" material the other day I had problems with the blade jumping off, but figured it was because of the width. Also blade speed could have been wrong, so I hate to blame the saw.
There is a RAMCO saw within driving distance, but also have not read much about them either. I've been on craigslist and looked on Ebay. There are some good saws here, but none are close to me. I live in North MS so it's a long drive to a big city, except Memphis,TN and I've found nothing there yet.
Any help would be great and all opinions will be taken into consideration.

find a used hyd-mech or doall in your price range and you'll be better off than al those listed... may be easier said than done though I realize. Older johnson saws are decent as well.

That Dake 7x12 is the same saw as every other manufacturer-Jet, Wilton, etc, etc.

We purchased the KBC tools branded version for something like $550. That was a government price, but I believe it runs along the lines of $750 or $800 which is a hell of a lot less than the Dake, for exactly the same saw.

It works well enough, but the whole quick sliding vise jaw thing is a POS. The mechanism gets all gunked up and then the vise wll fail to fully clamp and actually release itself during cutting. I wouldn't buy it if you're going to be cutting stock all day, but we cut a pretty large amount of metal with it with pretty good success. It is nice that it and other saws it's size are mobile. I'd have liked a little bigger saw but we can roll this thing under a staircase when we're not using it.

FWIW, forget the Ramco...POS...

I looked at those cheap 7x12's until I saw one in person, next to a Kalamazoo 9AW, I bought the Kalamazoo. Same price as a new Chinese, but much higher quality, and even though larger, is easily worth the additional space it takes up. WRT three phase motors, you can always replace the motor or power it with an inexpensive VFD.

Most any saw can be adjusted to keep the blade on if you know what to adjust, including the 4x6HF. The most common cause is the guide bearing support arms that hold the blade vertical in the cutting area. Looking at the saw on the operator side, move the arms laterally toward you keeping the blade vertical 90* square to the table. You can't just swing the arms out, the blade wont stay square. Moving the arms out makes the blade ride up the wheels, moving in makes it ride down.

With enough tinkering you can make the blade ride up the wheels until it just touches the shoulder on the wheels. Most often it's the drive wheel kicking the blade off. One saw I adjusted was so worn out I had to slot the mounting holes for the support arms. It moved the blade so far out I just sawed a new clearance slot in the table for the blade.

But first you have to fix the obvious stuff such as the wheels not being in line with each other. You may have to rework or shim the mounting on one or the other wheel.

I use a saw like this one (enco #136-2617). 9x16

Bought it used, I have used it in the shop for 12 years, many times at capacity.

Run Do-all blades, cuts dead on. Totally trouble free.

Only mod I have done is build an enlosed stand to raise it up.

Andy

saw

FWIW bought a Turn Pro from Enco 9 years ago , the one with the 3 speed gear change spent about a day tuning it up, over a 6" cut will hold within .005". I use a 10-14 weld edge blade.

I'm quite pleased with my 900lb, cast iron, 10 X 18 Kysor Johnson, in every way. The blade always stays where it belongs and it cuts square, unless I change that.

I see them for less than your top dollar fairly often and once a while comes a real bargain but probably not the extreme bargain that I got mine for, as the only bidder. Happens, good luck.

By the way, I don't know how I managed without it, didn't know how bad I had it!. I have yet to encounter a piece that won't fit, (I've streached the set up to a 22" cut) and have a couple of shop created refinements, removable outboard drill press vice on the cast iron shelf to the front for very short pieces, a large semi circle drop in piece that stabilises the pivot on the built in vice, good for certain pieces.

The factory coolant pump is simple, effective and the rebuild kits are cheap and still available from Dake-Johnson.

Bob

"I'm quite pleased with my 900lb, cast iron, 10 X 18 Kysor Johnson, in every way. The blade always stays where it belongs and it cuts square, unless I change that."

Looks like Robert and I have the same saw. You can move them with an engine hoist and a pick-up truck, paid $300 for mine needing a motor replacement, and a coolant pump repair. Bought a new motor and a submersible pump. Total investment about $500, she's not pretty but has been happily doing production cutting for 5 years, the thing is anywhere between 25 and 40 years old. Cuts nice and straight until the blade needs to see a dentist for missing teeth. Basically what I am saying, especially in this economy, buy used and spend the rest of your $1500 on other equipment.

We bought a Dake SE-712 through MSC. It is pretty much a Jet/Wilton as said above. The real selling factor was the switch - much nicer than the others. But it's the same old same old. It got us through one project, but would trade it in on a cold cut saw that would cut true. We cut a lot of aluminum stock - round, square, bar, etc - it just won't cut true. Changed blades, TPI, you name it. The Dake does come with a table so you can convert it into a vertical band saw. It works, but be careful.

Did anyone see my post in this thread. It disappeared. I wanted to copy it for my files.

I suspect it was deleted by you know who. Milacron, if you still have access to it could you please eMail a copy to me?

Forrest Addy said:

Did anyone see my post in this thread. It disappeared. I wanted to copy it for my files.

I suspect it was deleted by you know who. Milacron, if you still have access to it could you please eMail a copy to me?

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Things are getting ugly if your posts are getting deleted Forrest.

Tom

I don't get it. The Dack and TurnPro are the exact same as the Harbor Freight or Grizzly or anyone else who throws their name plate on the Chinese bandsaw. Yet those posts didn't get deleted.

bottom line is, although it is a smaller machine made in china, it is a common machine in a manufacturing facility for smaller one of or limited production runs. painting all chinese machines as junk and "those of which we do not speak" is self defeating to smaller shops who use these. We're not all the size of GM.

caspian

Caspian said:

I don't get it. The Dack and TurnPro are the exact same as the Harbor Freight or Grizzly or anyone else who throws their name plate on the Chinese bandsaw. Yet those posts didn't get deleted.

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True but I didn't know the Dake was the same at the time. This is getting so out of hand I have no choice but to just lock the thread. To discuss home shop grade Chinese machinery I suggest you go here www.chaski.org/homemachinist/