Retro advice needed on Hurco mill

jackal · Oct 2, 2010

Ok, I know it has been discussed to death.

But, I'm getting ready to start.

My mill Hurco KM3P is still connected and dis-functional somewhat. (Just to prove the CRT screen and some other stuff still works). The problem is a bad servo board in the bottom of the cabinet. The servo drives are all good. I even have (4) spares that are good.

The plan is to use Mach 3 on a dedicated PC, and run Viper drives with the factory DC servo motors. All of these items I feel comfortable & capable with.

Does anyone have a way that I can keep the same motor powered spindle speed controller? If not a inverter can be used.

Do any of you have any input or suggestions for this project? Have you done a similar CNC mill with any of the items planned, and have pros or cons about it?

The old CNC parts are for sale. PM me for price or make an offer. There is also a CMC systems tape emulator.

Yes I'll take pics of it.

Like I_R_Machinist said : "Get a 6 pack of beer and some sharp wire cutters"

Thanks in advance,

JAckal :cheers:

jackal · Oct 3, 2010

Any info on this set up? Ajax with mach 3 or the Centroid software.

AjaxCNC -- Mach3 CNC Control Systems

That would be my second choice.

JAckal :cheers:

jackal · Oct 5, 2010

No comments yet?

JAckal

Guest · Oct 5, 2010

I know a guy who uses nothing but old Hurcos once they become unrepairable he throws them away and gets another one. With older CNCs so cheap these days is it really cost effective to upgrade? Maybe I don't know how cheaply they can be upgraded, what do you expect to spend?

atex57 · Oct 5, 2010

Try EMC2 and Pico Systems, control and hardware repectively. Go to LinuxCNC.org - Home to see al the other options. I have been running it on my mill for a few years and have not had problems. d.

Parkerbender · Oct 5, 2010

Also, many people on a competing cnc website, which is more based on retrofits and homemade machine tools like i/o boards from mesa electronics, Peter is the engineer over there, and he seems pretty knowlegable. I know i'm going that route when I retrofit these lathes that are sitting here... (and should have been started last week...

) Also, mach 3 and emc2 has a lot of support for their boards...

-Parker

...thanks for the heads up, dualkit!

Guest · Oct 5, 2010

Parkerbender said:
Also, on ******* I know they like i/o boards from mesa electronics, Peter is the engineer over there, and he seems pretty knowlegable. I know i'm going that route when I retrofit these lathes that are sitting here... (and should have been started last week... )

-Parker

Hey Parker did you miss that you got censored? That place is much better to answer retrofit questions. There are a lot of build your own CNC guys over there.

jackal · Oct 5, 2010

Dualkit,

I am planning on about $1800 for the retro. The mill is in excellent shape (about 11000 hours) if I remember right.

What ever the old parts bring will offset the cost a little. :rolleyes5:

Yeah, if you want to reference Cnc Zone on here you have to break it up to get it to show.

Parker,

What kind of machines are you retrofitting?

atex57,

It will run on Mach 3 for a while. After making sure everything works OK, I will probably start messing with the Linux-CNC. It would be overwhelming for me to try and learn Linux, a new operating system, and a newly built machine at the same time. That Linux sure looks good.

JAckal :cheers:

JAckal

adama · Oct 5, 2010

Whats the spindle drives input requirements? or is this one of the electricaly adjusted vari belt drive setups??? bassed on your aviator pic.

If it is it would not be beyond it to drive it from a forth axis servo, heck if your bright enough you can easly mod the source code in EMC2 to do this from the S comand. Might be able to do that with mach don't know though as i don't use mach. Using a standard axis - servo type feed back just to rotate it over the required range. Would need to add code so it only adjusted with the spindle in motion though.

Its a heck of a lot more work than just converting to any othere form of electronic spindle drive though. Then Mach EMC any other standard machine control would be a easy interface. As would running tapping and such spindle speed - start stop dependant functions.

Had never ran linux till i went with emc. Its just like windows - apple mac! You don't have to use a comand line for anything unless you want to. Even then theres so much online instruction you can do it copy and paste style :-)

Guest · Oct 5, 2010

$1800 makes sense. I was under the assumption that they cost $10,000. Maybe it was the build your with out a good core machine that costs that much.

jackal · Oct 5, 2010

Dualkit,

Some of the Centroid (which is the same as Ajax ) are $8,000 to $14,000+. They have the control box & screen with all of the wires and you just plug everything in. :skep:

If you get their servo motors add $$$$. If your Bridgeport or???? mill is manual and needs ball-screws they have them, too. Add $$$$.

Here is a link:CENTROID CNC controls

adama,

I have used Linux Ubuntu. It looked just like Windows, but with different icons. I can always make a cheat sheet for some of the commands. I have been afraid of having to write commands similar to DOS, or Visual Basic type stuff.

Igor Chudov on here told me it was easy, but Igor is very good on computers.

It might be easy for him, and take me 10 years to figure it out.

The spindle is controlled by a board in the contactor box. It drives a small electric motor that turns the spindle up or down just like you would by hand on a Bridgeport vari-drive system. There is a sensor in there that picks up the feedback for the speed. There is also an over ride switch for up or down on the speed.

I would like to keep this feature if possible, and ( if reliable).

Thanks guys for the info,
Keep it coming,

JAckal :cheers:

Jim Caudill · Oct 5, 2010

My memory is a little fuzzy jack, but I believe the control sends out a 0 to 10vdc reference signal based on the programmed speed for the spindle. The control board has a frequency to voltage converter chip that reads the output pulses from the proximity sensor in the spindle head. The board then compares the output from that frequecy to voltage converter to the programmed voltage and develops a "drive signal" that causes the speed increase or speed decrease relay to accuate.

Bottom line is that if your retrofit system will give you a 0 to 10 vdc reference signal as a result of the programming, you should be able to feed that right in to the control card where the existing signal is fed.

I would think someone has already accomplished all this. The servo's and encoders should be able to be used just as they are. In fact, I would think that the servo amps would be retained and all the control wiring would take place at the servo amp connector bus.

jackal · Oct 6, 2010

Thanks Jim,

I'll bet you are 100% right. You analyzed & repaired it before.

There is a page somewhere on the internet where a guy was retroing one of these and he used all of the factory spindle stuff. I just can't find it now. It was similar to hooking up an inverter drive ( just like you were saying, Jim).

JAckal :cheers:

daleroe · Oct 6, 2010

Jack,
Sorry to hear that your not running yet. I met with an EE last week, my ventures with the servo card is turning sour rapidly. The return on investment just isn't there with the limited market. The EE did say it would be easy for someone to repair the servo control card with the documentation you sent me, although they would not be able to test it with out a machine. If your interested in getting running right away, I have a line on a used servo card locally that I was going to use for development. It may still be available - I expect about $200 - if your interested, I'll follow up on the lead.

Jim is right on track about reusing all the servo amps. I've been looking into some of the same things. Mach 3 sends out step and direction so you would need to convert that to ±10vdc. EMC sends out ±10vdc already.
-dale

jackal · Oct 6, 2010

Thanks for the offer, Dale.

I will probably use Mach 3 or EMC for now with Viper drives. Everything will be new and replacement parts will be readily available.

There will be a spare Viper drive & an encoder in my tooling cabinet for emergencies.

Those Hurco parts are getting harder and harder to find. I do want to sell what I have before everyone goes retro or scraps their machines and the demand drops for these parts.

If anyone is interested, PM me or e-mail me: flashmw (at) gmail (dot) com

These parts will be a lot cheaper than those crazy prices on e-bay.

JAckal

HuFlungDung · Oct 6, 2010

Isn't there some kind of a servo 'speed limit' in Mach that would kind of limit your rapids, depending on your encoder resolution, and total counts per second? Just something to check on before you get it half done and find out you can't live with 100 ipm or something.

Hood · Oct 6, 2010

HuFlungDung said:
Isn't there some kind of a servo 'speed limit' in Mach that would kind of limit your rapids, depending on your encoder resolution, and total counts per second? Just something to check on before you get it half done and find out you can't live with 100 ipm or something.

With the parallel port there is 100KHz limit but with the various external pulsing devices up to 4MHz is obtainable.
Hood

Hood · Oct 6, 2010

jackal said:
Thanks for the offer, Dale.

I will probably use Mach 3 or EMC for now with Viper drives. Everything will be new and replacement parts will be readily available.

There will be a spare Viper drive & an encoder in my tooling cabinet for emergencies.
JAckal

You may wish to check this page out, lots of servo drives reviewed by the guy.
06/01/2009 - Servo Drive Review and Comparison

Hood

macona · Oct 6, 2010

I would talk to Milltronics and get a refurbed Centurion 7 control It will work with your existing servos and be so, so much better than mach. If I had to do my retrofit all over again there is no chance in hell I would go with mach. Rigid tap for one reason.

macona · Oct 6, 2010

Hood said:
With the parallel port there is 100KHz limit but with the various external pulsing devices up to 4MHz is obtainable.
Hood

My machines have tended to start acting funny when I pushed the parallel port past the 60-65khz range.

Retro advice needed on Hurco mill

Titanium

Titanium

Titanium

Guest

Guest

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Guest

Guest

Titanium

Diamond

Guest

Guest

Titanium

Stainless

Titanium

Cast Iron

Titanium

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Diamond

Similar threads